cam phaser question

A few summers back I had a bolt shear off of one of my plastic tensioners. The chain wore the timing cover a bit and it sounded bad. Replaced them with metal ones.. Currently have another failure I gotta dig into.

So I think I found my freeze plug to fit into my valve covers.

Dorman 565-093. They are listed as 35mm but the OD is actually 35.6mm.





Pretty good fit, although I was hoping to find something with a press in fit.





Now, I am not sure how to install it...whether to use gasket maker or JB Weld.
Seeing how the stock seal is just pressed in, I figure gasket maker would be more that OK.

What do you guys suggest?

Bump because I didn't think starting another thread on cam phasers was necessary.

My 06Gt with 130k miles is starting to show symptoms of a bad cam phaser even though I'm not throwing any codes yet. I'm going to order the FRPP timing kit and make the repair but here is the question -

Can I wait a couple weeks before making the repair??? My car is a daily driver and this is a time/money issue. I still have to order the timing kit, wait for it to come in, and then find time to make the repair. I've never had the opportunity to have a cam phaser in my hands to inspect and look at. So can these things come apart and cause catastrophic failure?

I plan on keeping RPMs under 4k and taking things easy till I can get it done. I know there are no 100% answers, just wondering what's reasonable?
I guess basically what I'm asking is has anybody had a similar predicament and your motor survived until you could get it fixed?

Another thing is since I have to tear into the motor it would be nice if I could wait until my tax return comes in and do a few things all at the same time because of the high mileage on the car. Delete plates, COPs, injectors, ect....

What are your symptoms? How do you know your phasers are going bad?

A phaser failure can be catastrophic. It's hit or miss.
If you're overhauling your timing, you might as well do your water pump. I don't see a need for COPS or injectors unless they are bad.

AutoXRacer said:

What are your symptoms? How do you know your phasers are going bad?

A phaser failure can be catastrophic. It's hit or miss.
If you're overhauling your timing, you might as well do your water pump. I don't see a need for COPS or injectors unless they are bad.

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The water pump can be replaced at anytime. I think you mean the oil pump. If you meant the oil pump, I agree with you...if you meant the water pump, I disagree.

I also agree on the COP's and injectors, no need.

With 130k miles, I wouldn't just change the phasers. Might as well do a complete timing kit replacement...phasers, tensioners, chains, all of it.

If you'll contact forum sponsor Steve @ Tasca, he has the best pricing on the timing kit and oil pump.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=167

BadPiggy said:

I think you mean the oil pump. If you meant the oil pump, I agree with you...

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I meant oil pump, sigh...
And totally also recommend Steve at TASCA. Definitely get the timing kit from FRPP. Includes phasers, tensioners, chaines, crank gear, reluctor wheel...Everything you need to refreshen up your timing system.

Thanks guys. I am going to get the entire FRPP timing kit if it comes to that. My symptoms are a misfire/miss at idle and cruising rpm with a slight burble/backfire sound. I've listened to a few of the bad phaser you tube videos and my noise isn't nearly as loud so at this point I'm trouble shooting. Plugs were replaced with motorcraft SP514s about a month ago. Next on my list is pulling plugs to inspect and after that unplugging one COP at a time and go from there. I've have a slight rattleing sound at low RPM half throttle acceleration. I cant hear anything at idle when under the hood and had a friend hold it at 3k while I listened under the hood. Couldn't trace or hear the sound. WOT seems fine with no miss detected and no sound but I got boomtubes so mostly all I hear is exhaust, lol.

My car is high mileage so I'm anticipating every little thing going wrong, kinda paranoid about it and I don't even use the radio anymore because I'm always listening for the next issue, lol. Ever since I blew the sycro's in my transmission 3 months ago I'm waiting for the next thing to go wrong.

Thanks again....

rocky61201 said:

Thanks guys. I am going to get the entire FRPP timing kit if it comes to that. My symptoms are a misfire/miss at idle and cruising rpm with a slight burble/backfire sound. I've listened to a few of the bad phaser you tube videos and my noise isn't nearly as loud so at this point I'm trouble shooting. Plugs were replaced with motorcraft SP514s about a month ago. Next on my list is pulling plugs to inspect and after that unplugging one COP at a time and go from there. I've have a slight rattleing sound at low RPM half throttle acceleration. I cant hear anything at idle when under the hood and had a friend hold it at 3k while I listened under the hood. Couldn't trace or hear the sound. WOT seems fine with no miss detected and no sound but I got boomtubes so mostly all I hear is exhaust, lol.

My car is high mileage so I'm anticipating every little thing going wrong, kinda paranoid about it and I don't even use the radio anymore because I'm always listening for the next issue, lol. Ever since I blew the sycro's in my transmission 3 months ago I'm waiting for the next thing to go wrong.

Thanks again....

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Could be a faulty Rocker arm. My 2010 GT with 103K recently (when it got colder out) started tapping at low RPM and increased with RPM. That is why we started my 298 build. Once we pulled the motor and removed a valve cover from the side of the engine it sounded like it was coming from, we saw a burnt rocker arm. It damaged the cam and probably left some metal shavings in the motor. We have seen this before on high mileage engines and even low mileage built motors, which in the past we have accessed came from a faulty batch of rockers from Ford. The FRPP kit http://www.teamjdm.com/modular-3v-rocker-arm-and-lash-adjuster-kit/ uses a newer batch of rockers that have been pretty effective. We used them in my new build.

Over the coarse of the month or two driving the car with this noise I noticed it had lost some mid range performance between 2-3K RPM similar to what you noticed.

JimIII

Unplugged the COPs one by one and things sounded as they should when you do that. Next I pulled the plugs and #6 had the porcelain split in two somewhere up in the middle so the rest slipped down all the way to the ground strap covering the electrode. These plugs are only a month or so old, WTF. I can't believe 1 bad plug could cause so much hate and discontent. Luckily I hung on to my old plugs so I picked the best one that had the most electrode left, closed up the gap a little a stuck it in there. Runs good and no more noises. Gonna pick up a new plug tomorrow. Thanks again to those gave their advice.

Initially I ruled out the plugs because they were new. The misfire and noises were not there all the time and kinda inconsistent, or variable. That's why I figured it might be something starting to go bad with the VCT. Glad it wasn't.

Since I have never taken a head apart and reassembled, I sometimes struggle to visualize what is going on. Since I want to understand every aspect of anything done to my car I work at that understanding. These pictures are for guys in the same boat trying to visualize what is going on with a VCT solenoid delete.

Merry Christmas to everyone of whatever holiday you may or may not celebrate. Excellent thread. Since I have phase limiters this doesn't apply to me if I'm understanding this completely. On my brand new build what timing kit should I buy ? Or should I reuse the low mileage stuff I have? I think I would feel better with new. This whole plastic / steel thing has me confused. Thanks!
Don

I just use the same stuff (tensioners, chains, phasers...) over and over. The only problem I ever had was using the *steel* tensioners from pre-SN197's. Over the course of two years, I ended up having each side rail broken at least once. Made an awful racket, but didn't jump a tooth (or two) and trash the valve train.

Switched back over to the plastic SN197 style tensioners and haven't had a rail break once, and I beat the hell out of my engine while running 16psi through my daily driver, and can jump to 19 with the press of a button, and 21 with the press of a button and some TORCO.

I second Michael's advice.

Tensioners can get re collapsed and set up, integral gaskets/seals good for multiple uses? This is good information.

eighty6gt said:

Tensioners can get re collapsed and set up, integral gaskets/seals good for multiple uses? This is good information.

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Actually, my engine builder hates reusing for this very reason. He has had failures.

I agree with weather man, the OEM tensioners are one time use. The gasket/seal fails on its own.
Every single tensioner I've replaced had damaged seals. In that regard, they suck.

michael.konor said:

I just use the same stuff (tensioners, chains, phasers...) over and over. The only problem I ever had was using the *steel* tensioners from pre-SN197's. Over the course of two years, I ended up having each side rail broken at least once. Made an awful racket, but didn't jump a tooth (or two) and trash the valve train.

Switched back over to the plastic SN197 style tensioners and haven't had a rail break once, and I beat the hell out of my engine while running 16psi through my daily driver, and can jump to 19 with the press of a button, and 21 with the press of a button and some TORCO.

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This is the reason Ford redesigned them without the ratcheting mechanism.

It's pretty easy to change/reinspect the 3v tensioners anytime they are taken off. If the seal does go bad (it will only happen during removal unless they weren't intsalled correctly to begin with, they don't blow out), there is enough spring tension built into them to keep tension on the guides.

However, when the steel, ratcheting tensioners lock open the result is broken guides and damage. Of course this brings rise to more cottage industries offering billet chain guides, lol. Ranks right up there with "cooling mods" imo.

In the end do what you feel is right. It's your hard earned money. All we can do is share experiences.

BruceH said:

This is the reason Ford redesigned them without the ratcheting mechanism.

It's pretty easy to change/reinspect the 3v tensioners anytime they are taken off. If the seal does go bad (it will only happen during removal unless they weren't intsalled correctly to begin with, they don't blow out), there is enough spring tension built into them to keep tension on the guides.

However, when the steel, ratcheting tensioners lock open the result is broken guides and damage. Of course this brings rise to more cottage industries offering billet chain guides, lol. Ranks right up there with "cooling mods" imo.

In the end do what you feel is right. It's your hard earned money. All we can do is share experiences.

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Ya'll are starting to worry me. I've been running the steel tensioners now for about 25,000 miles. When do they go bad ?

TheKurgan said:

Ya'll are starting to worry me. I've been running the steel tensioners now for about 25,000 miles. When do they go bad ?

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me, too............