FRPP vs Stock CMCV

2003cobra22

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For those who have a bolt ons, longtubes, and NVR cams opinions on the FRPP intake manifold. From data Ive seen the FRPP intake doesn't help much without heads and valve train that can handle 7k plus rpms, I'm considering keeping the factory intake with the CMCV's for the low end.
Not going FI either sold my 03 Cobra with a VMP TVS, GT can't compare
 

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Few things first:

Before someone else chimes in, read the posting rules as this is not tech and will probably get moved. They are particular here about keeping the forum organized.

What year is your car? Are the charge motion valves in the manifold itself or in a separate plate?
 

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For those who have a bolt ons, longtubes, and NVR cams opinions on the FRPP intake manifold. From data Ive seen the FRPP intake doesn't help much without heads and valve train that can handle 7k plus rpms, I'm considering keeping the factory intake with the CMCV's for the low end.
Not going FI either sold my 03 Cobra with a VMP TVS, GT can't compare

You have summed up my experience. I like cmcv but there is a point where the stock intake manifold becomes a restriction. I don't think it will happen with a stock displacement motor under 6500 or so rpm though.

There are positives to having cmcv and I would have them if it were possible with the FRPP intake manifold. My increased displacement, ported heads, and cams makes use of the extra airflow afforded by the FRPP intake. It doesn't happen until 5000+rpms. My motor displaces 5.3 liters.

For a stock motor that isn't driven at 7k rpm most of the time I'd stick with the stock intake and cmcv.
 

2003cobra22

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No worries, car is a 2007 with plates separate from the intake manifold

You have summed up my experience. I like cmcv but there is a point where the stock intake manifold becomes a restriction. I don't think it will happen with a stock displacement motor under 6500 or so rpm though.

There are positives to having cmcv and I would have them if it were possible with the FRPP intake manifold. My increased displacement, ported heads, and cams makes use of the extra airflow afforded by the FRPP intake. It doesn't happen until 5000+rpms. My motor displaces 5.3 liters.

For a stock motor that isn't driven at 7k rpm most of the time I'd stick with the stock intake and cmcv.

Good to know save myself the time

While I'm doing the cams decided on replacing the stock valve springs with Comp springs and steel retainers, and new lash adjusters and followers. Anyone use comp springs 26113
 
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Speedboosted

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I did Comp 127400 cams, PAC springs, Comp Limiters. I've got longtubes, offroad H, under drive pulleys, Steeda intake but decided to leave the stock intake manifold and CMCV for more power under the curve. Car is a 3v swap and I did all this before dropping it in so no way of knowing how much each gained.

Now, I'm getting a reoccurring P2004 and P2005 codes for each bank runners being stuck open so that is annoying. Probably deleting them soon if I can't fixed the issue.
 

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I have the FRPP only because I got it at a price I couldn't refuse. I have more top end but I seriously do question if I am any faster.

for refrence full bolt on 3v, stock cams, 3.73s, DRs, and a smallish shot.
 

2003cobra22

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I did Comp 127400 cams, PAC springs, Comp Limiters. I've got longtubes, offroad H, under drive pulleys, Steeda intake but decided to leave the stock intake manifold and CMCV for more power under the curve. Car is a 3v swap and I did all this before dropping it in so no way of knowing how much each gained.

Now, I'm getting a reoccurring P2004 and P2005 codes for each bank runners being stuck open so that is annoying. Probably deleting them soon if I can't fixed the issue.

Are the PAC springs similar to the Comps 26113? What rpms are you pushing with that cam setup. Ill be using my otc6684 tool i have, any advice on making the valve spring swap easier with the heads still on the engine?
 
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Are the PAC springs similar to the Comps 26113? What rpms are you pushing with that cam setup. Ill be using my otc6684 tool i have, any advice on making the valve spring swap easier with the heads still on the engine?

No idea on tips, we yanked the heads off to do head gaskets, fresh timing equipment, and new chains since it was already out of the car.

The PAC springs are pretty much identical to the 26113, except they have a slightly higher coil bind length. Minor difference in seat pressures but it's trivial in an NA car. I just finished the swap a few weeks ago and haven't even had it on the dyno yet. I think I saw 6600 rpm on a datalog on the street. Probably won't rev it too much higher since these cams make good torque but it was butter smooth at 6600. Maybe 6800 if needed? (To avoid a shift between corners on the road course, primary use for the car).

Link to the springs. Cheaper than the Comps and I reused the factory retainers and locks. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-16213-24
 
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2003cobra22

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No idea on tips, we yanked the heads off to do head gaskets, fresh timing equipment, and new chains since it was already out of the car.

The PAC springs are pretty much identical to the 26113, except they have a slightly higher coil bind length. Minor difference in seat pressures but it's trivial in an NA car. I just finished the swap a few weeks ago and haven't even had it on the dyno yet. I think I saw 6600 rpm on a datalog on the street. Probably won't rev it too much higher since these cams make good torque but it was butter smooth at 6600. Maybe 6800 if needed? (To avoid a shift between corners on the road course, primary use for the car).

Link to the springs. Cheaper than the Comps and I reused the factory retainers and locks. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-16213-24

Definitely wouldn't hurt to put new phasers, timing chain, maybe some aftermarket iron chain tensioners. Got a set of the springs BNIB from a friend for cheap along with the steel retainers gonna reuse factory locks with and the new lash adjusters and followers kit from frpp while I'm in there. Should have no issues to 6800-7k redline, just hope the cast rods don't crap out on me
 

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Definitely wouldn't hurt to put new phasers, timing chain, maybe some aftermarket iron chain tensioners. Got a set of the springs BNIB from a friend for cheap along with the steel retainers gonna reuse factory locks with and the new lash adjusters and followers kit from frpp while I'm in there. Should have no issues to 6800-7k redline, just hope the cast rods don't crap out on me

I did the iron tensioners as well, everyone freaked out at me on here because they claim it'll break the guides...we'll see.

I don't think the rods are the issue for rpm, I'd be more concerned about crank and bearings. As I said before, it was really smooth at that RPM
 

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my experience with steeda cmdp (cmcv) on my 2005 gt: k&n cai, steeda udp, steeda cmdp (cmcv), frpp shorty headers, oem h-pipe with cats, frpp gta mufflers, 93 dyno tune by JPC racing (stock throttle body, stock intake manifold, stock heads, stock cams).

5spd manual with 4.10 gears at time of dyno (warm/muggy day) dyno graph. I'm happy with the setup, good luck with your build!
 

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my experience with steeda cmdp (cmcv) on my 2005 gt: k&n cai, steeda udp, steeda cmdp (cmcv), frpp shorty headers, oem h-pipe with cats, frpp gta mufflers, 93 dyno tune by JPC racing (stock throttle body, stock intake manifold, stock heads, stock cams).

5spd manual with 4.10 gears at time of dyno (warm/muggy day) dyno graph. I'm happy with the setup, good luck with your build!

That's crazy torque numbers, impressive. Did you happen to swap just those out at one time? Curious to see where they gain and where they lose power
 

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That's crazy torque numbers, impressive. Did you happen to swap just those out at one time? Curious to see where they gain and where they lose power

I did swap just the cmdp/cmcv and have it retuned; my previous numbers were 302rwhp/317rwtq (also hot/muggy day, but on a dynojet). I'll dig up the graph when I get home.

***update***

Nov 2011: k&n cai, frpp shorty headers, frpp gta mufflers - otherwise bone stock car, manual trans & 3.55 gears
295rwhp/316rwtq, dynojet w/std correction factor, 45 degF temps, low humidity

Jun 2012: installed steeda udp, 93 octane dyno tune @ Woodbine motorsports
302rwhp/317rwtq, dynojet w/std correction factor, 80 degF temps, humid

Oct 2012: 4.10 gears installed

Jul 2015: installed steeda cmdp/cmcv, 93 octane dyno tune @ JPC Racing
329rwhp/350rwtq, dyno dynamics, high 80's degF temps, humid

comparison dyno graph

hope this helps...
 
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Speedboosted

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I did swap just the cmdp/cmcv and have it retuned; my previous numbers were 302rwhp/317rwtq (also hot/muggy day, but on a dynojet). I'll dig up the graph when I get home.

***update***

Nov 2011: k&n cai, frpp shorty headers, frpp gta mufflers - otherwise bone stock car, manual trans & 3.55 gears
295rwhp/316rwtq, dynojet w/std correction factor, 45 degF temps, low humidity

Jun 2012: installed steeda udp, 93 octane dyno tune @ Woodbine motorsports
302rwhp/317rwtq, dynojet w/std correciotn factor, 80 degF temps, humid

Oct 2012: 4.10 gears installed

Jul 2015: installed steeda cmdp/cmcv, 93 octane dyno tune @ JPC Racing
329rwhp/350rwtq, dyno dynamics, high 80's degF temps, humid

comparison dyno graph

hope this helps...

Wow, I still cant get over that torque number. Was it really that noticeable on the street from deleting the plates?


God bless you for posting that, save $130 on springs and $70 on retainers on my mild build, good grief. Seat pressure is actually the same at a given height - they are listed at different heights.

I'm using 127300 cams.

Lol, no problem. I love PAC products and was basically going to spend any amount to run them. It was a nice surprise to see them be cheaper than Comps.
 

2003cobra22

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I installed the cams, new comp springs and retainers, new lash adjusters and followers. I also pulled the timing cover and installed the frpp timing chain and phaser kit, VCT solenoids along with a new Melling M340 oil pump while it was apart. Car is back together and runs healthy and great
 

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I installed the cams, new comp springs and retainers, new lash adjusters and followers. I also pulled the timing cover and installed the frpp timing chain and phaser kit, VCT solenoids along with a new Melling M340 oil pump while it was apart. Car is back together and runs healthy and great

Great to hear! I didn't even think about doing the Melling pump... :Stupid Me:
 

2003cobra22

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Great to hear! I didn't even think about doing the Melling pump... :Stupid Me:

With the cover and timing assembly apart it's only 3 bolts holding it to the block. Hardest part is getting the lower pick up tube bolt on and off, theres very little room to maneuver, a ratcheting adjustable head wrench works best
 

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I bought a used 2010 intake with Steeda delete plugs for like $125 online. 2010's did not have the CMCV on them.
 

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