Up-grading fuel system

Looking for suggestions on either continuing running a new stock replacement fuel pump with Paxton booster, or possibly upgrading.

My tuner looked at my datalogs, and he said he thought my fuel pump may be on it's way out, and today on my last pass of the day I threw a lean code on both banks, so I better address the situation before it costs me more than a fuel pump, or fuel system.

Is there a simple pump upgrade that is commonly done with these cars, or should I just put the car away for the rest of the season and do a complete fuel system? I'd be happy with 600+hp for quite a while, but would hate to put a new stock pump in her, and have the same thing happen all too soon. because of having to utilize the pump booster, as the car only has around 34K milres on her now, and can't imagine it going south yet if it wasn't being boosted with the voltage booster, maybe I'm wrong here?

I know a lot of you guys will suggest a complete fuel system, so if I go this route, and anticipate maybe going with flex-fuel / E85, will my ID1000's be enough injector to support mid 600 rwhp with E85? If not, it's a "no go" because that's simply too much money for injectors again.

Another thing that kind of turns me off with a return style fuel system, aside from the work, and money, is that it heated the fuel up pretty badly on an older return style fuel injected Mustang I had years ago. After installing a larger pump, the car left me on the side of the road more than once until the pump would cool back down, and don't really want to deal with that ever again, maybe these newer aftermarket systems have come a long ways?

If the stock pump and a booster does the job now, I would install a S&H wiring and pump upgrade. I believe they have the Walbro 405 living with the boost-a-pump now.
Of course my tech is always 4.6 related, the 2011+ may be different.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76458&highlight=fuel+pump+wiring+upgrade

RocketcarX said:

If the stock pump and a booster does the job now, I would install a S&H wiring and pump upgrade. I believe they have the Walbro 405 living with the boost-a-pump now.
Of course my tech is always 4.6 related, the 2011+ may be different.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76458&highlight=fuel+pump+wiring+upgrade

Click to expand...

I'll check it out, and thank you for the info!

That's not too out of the ordinary for a fuel pump being run harder and the coyote already has a much higher current higher flowing deplhi fuel pump from the factory compared to what previous mustangs ever had.

That is the basic options for the coyote, bap and wire upgrades and then return systems. There is not significant performance upgrade to be had by installing a "larger" single fuel pump upgrade into the oem fuel hat like with the 3v, I explored that route years ago. While it can be done it wasn't worth the time and effort for the marginal gain.

Its not always easy to pinpoint the exact cause of the issue, could be something simple as some degraded or intermittent wiring for the bap or relay, dirty fuel filter etc so those are some basic things you can address.

The biggest issue imo for a lot of the coyote baps offered is this plug and play style or directions that have you use oem wiring to feed the voltages booster. The increased current draw is now taxing the oem wiring vice getting a dedicated power source with a thicker gauge wire to support the increased load.

As far as return stuff goes on a regularly driven street car there is hardware and concepts that address your concerns. Justin at Fore wrote some very good articles answering most of your questions about return systems and the coyote, I would give them a read.

And yes ID1000 at the 3 bar will support around 850rwhp on e85 and more at the coyotes oem higher base pressure, so your good on injectors.

http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2014/07/upgrading-coyote-fuel-systems.html

Upgrading Coyote Fuel Systems

The 2011-2014 Coyote powered Mustang GT and*Boss 302*are*popular platforms for upgrades, and some owners eventually get to the point of needing a fuel upgrade.* The*most basic*fuel upgrade is*large injectors*with a*pump voltage booster, which is perfectly adequate for mild builds.* More extreme builds*require a properly*planned fuel system.
*
UNDERSTANDING THE OEM FUEL SYSTEM
In order to plan a proper fuel system, a basic understanding of the OEM system is required.* Let's get one thing straight...the Coyote fuel system is NOT an electronic returnless fuel system like the GT500.* Yes, there is a Fuel Pump Driver Module (FPDM)...and yes, there is not a return line.* However, fuel pump speed is NOT modulated to maintain a target fuel pressure...instead the FPDM is only used to reduce pump voltage during low load conditions...the rest of the fuel is simply*"blown off" inside the fuel tank by*a*fuel pressure*regulator.* We classify this type of fuel system as mechanical returnless, since it is mechanically regulated and there is not a return line.

In order to accommodate this functionality, the OEM (driver side) pump module*is configured*to stuff the following components in a*relatively small package:
fuel pump (Delphi T-23)
coarse pre-filter (to protect the fuel pump)
fine post-filter (to protect the injectors)
venturi transfer pump
level sender
fuel pressure regulator (static)
suction tube connector
check valve
*
LIMITATIONS OF THE OEM FUEL SYSTEM
The in-tank components of the Coyote Mustang were engineered to work together.* Incremental upgrades such as voltage boosting the pump are generally not substantial enough to exploit the weakness of the other components.* However, a substantial upgrade such as multiple upgraded fuel pumps*requires high capacity*filtration, and*upgraded regulation with*the additional functionality of*manifold*pressure (boost)*reference,*upgraded electrical system, and larger fittings and feed/return lines.

Additionally, some E85 conversions*require*additional E85 enhancements, such as stainless filtration media, filter loss monitoring, ethanol content monitoring, etc.* ...none of which are possible with the OEM fuel system.

UPGRADING THE COYOTE FUEL SYSTEM
Our high end customers use our fuel pump modules that*can deliver*up to 4.5 times the pump capacity of the OEM module.**As you can imagine, this needs appropriate support components so the entire system can*function properly.* Here is a quick rundown of how we spec out a built Coyote fuel system:

PUMP MODULE
Our module*retains the OEM level sender and has it's own venturi jet pumps so you don't lose any functionality of the original fuel tank.* However,*our module*can hold two or three*big pumps that can deliver more fuel than any single electric external pump.**Needless to say, these pumps don't leave enough room to install the rest of the necessary [upgraded]*components, so they have to go outside the tank.

FILTRATION
Unlike the OEM filter, which is inside the tank, we provide a large, external, serviceable fuel filter that can be equipped with stainless steel filter element for E85 compatibility.* Additionally, placing the filter outside the tank allows pressure monitoring before the filter, which we consider necessary with E85 builds.* BTW, the OEM Coyote filter is not E85 compatible.

CHECK VALVE
More flow requires a larger check valve.* Our check valve is simply too large to fit inside the fuel tank, so we simple install it on the end of our external filter

REGULATION
Engines that sip fuel at idle, but guzzle massive amounts of*fuel at WOT need a larger regulator that can accurately deliver fuel throughout the entire range of fuel consumption.* Additionally, most tuners prefer a "boost referenced" fuel pressure regulator for forced induction motors.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
The factory electrical system is simply not sized properly to handle high current aftermarket pumps, nor does it separate the individual pumps into isolated circuits so that pumps may be properly "staged" to maximize reliability.* A proper electrical upgrade is the most overlooked aspect of a*high capacity fuel system.

FUEL LINES AND FITTINGS
Properly sized fuel lines are necessary to delivery the planned supply flowrate.* Undersized fuel line will create increased backpressure at the fuel pumps and reduced flowrate to the injectors, resulting in excess wear on fuel pumps and reduced fuel*system capacity.

ETHANOL CONTENT*MONITORING
If you have a high capacity fuel system and want to monitor*the ethanol content of your alcohol blended*fuel, the preferred way*is to*intercept the RETURN line with a GM flex fuel sensor.* Our built Coyote fuel systems have return line access for easy installation of this sensor.* (and it's an option in our kits)

SUMMARY
When it's all said and done, if you have a mildly built Coyote, a pump voltage booster and large injectors may be all you need....but*once*your hunger for power and ETs exceeds these*mild upgrades, a proper fuel system for your*Coyote does not follow in the same*footsteps as the OEM system

http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2013/06/fuel-systems-and-heat.html

Fuel Systems and Heat

Few people think about the heat in their fuel system. The truth is, heat has a substantial affect on how long your fuel pumps live. OEM fuel systems have controls to reduce the heat in the fuel systems; but what about your aftermarket fuel system? High performance aftermarket fuel systems move a LOT of fuel...even our lower end systems may double the OEM capacity...and a high end system may churn out six times the fuel of the original pump(s).

A pair of 450 lph Walbro F90000267s running at 13.5 volts and 60 psi makes over 450 watts of heat. To put that in perspective, think about four 100 watt light bulbs sitting in your fuel tank!

Our typical 1200 rwhp fuel system will reach 170º F when operated in five gallons of fuel exposed to 70º atmosphere for two hours. (where evaporation helps cool the fuel) *A fuel tank in the summer under your hot car WILL get hotter, unless you do something about it. This elevated temperature makes your fuel pump internals wear faster and any chemical reactions happen a LOT faster...especially if you're running E85. (which is laden with additives and contaminants)

Now that I have your attention, let's talk about the OEM and aftermarket approaches to fuel heat management.


OEM FUEL SYSTEMS AND HEAT MANAGEMENT
Many high performance vehicles come with high capacity fuel systems that require some sort of provisions to reduce the heat. Vehicle manufacturers have the added burden of minimizing fuel heat for evaporative emissions. *Here are some of the methods vehicle manufacturers use to keep fuel cool:

POWER RESISTORS: *An old school technique used on Ford Lightnings and Subaru WRX have used power resistors to slow down the fuel pumps when under low loads. These power resistors have large heat sinks that absorb and dissipate the energy (heat) that would normally go into the fuel under most operating conditions.

MODULATION: *Electronic returnless systems such as those found in certain model Mustangs and late model Camaros modulate the fuel pump(s) based on demand from the engine using a fuel pump controller. When you're cruising around, the pumps simply run slower (and cooler).

HYBRID MODULATED/REGULATED: *Coyote based Mustangs use a fuel pump controller AND a static mechanical regulator to deliver fuel. *Under low load conditions, the fuel pump is operated at a lower voltage (slower and cooler); under load, the fuel pump voltage is "stepped" up to full voltage. Meanwhile, the mechanical regulator bypasses the excess fuel to keep fuel pressure constant.

PUMP DEACTIVATED: *The Nissan GT-R R35 has two fuel pumps. One is simply disabled when not required.


AFTERMARKET FUEL SYSTEMS AND HEAT MANAGEMENT
The nature of a comprehensive fuel system upgrade eliminates nearly all factory controls, so the easy solution is to simply omit any heat reducing measures. *In many cases this may be fine, especially where the car will only be run for short periods. However, some circumstances could be deadly for your fuel pumps. Here are some free and inexpensive methods to keep your fuel cooler and pumps healthy:

DEACTIVATE UNUSED PUMPS: *You don't need 1200-1800 rwhp of fuel pump blasting away while you putt around town, so opt for our*FC3*controller and have that extra supply only on demand. You can trigger the other pumps however you like. Popular methods are via pressure switch, windows switch, nitrous controller, or boost controller's aux outputs.

FREQUENT INLINE FILTER CHANGES: *Some people think a drop in fuel pressure (at idle/cruising) is an indicator to change their filter. However, the fuel pressure regulator automatically compensates for a dirty filter, and the expected fuel pressure drop never happens. In the meantime, the fuel pump is working overtime (and running hotter and slower) to push past the dirty filter. If installing a fuel pressure gauge prior to the filter is too much trouble, at least change your filter every six months. *(more often for E85) *Our*reusable stainless replacement element will pay for itself in three changes.

USE SMALLER FUEL PUMPS: *If you have a 800 rwhp centri blown high compression motor, you don't need nearly as much fuel as your neighbor's 800 rwhp low compression twinscrew setup. You can use the*F10000302*pump that makes 35% less heat than what your neighbor needs. The general idea is to use only as much pump as you need...you can always upgrade later to a bigger pump.

KEEP MORE FUEL IN THE TANK: *The more fuel you have on board, the more of a thermal "reservoir" you have. If you have enough power that requires an upgraded fuel system, accept that you're not driving a Camry and your car requires additional precautions and considerations...and one of those is the life of your fuel pumps. *Keep your fuel levels high if you run the car for a long period of time.

ROAD TRIPS: *If you insist on a road trip with your beast, disconnect or disable the pump(s) you don't need. While you're at it, fill up with 87, put a sticky note on your tach, and forget about teaching any "lessons" along the way.

RUN PROPER BASE FUEL PRESSURE: *A factory GT500 spins the stock Eaton to 9 psi of boost. When you bolt on an aftermarket supercharger, do you pulley the blower for 9 psi? I bet you don't...and the same thing applies with your fuel system: the original fuel pressure means nothing. If you are running a standalone return style fuel system, set the fuel pressure to the rating of your injectors. (usually between 39-43 psi) We've heard the rationale from some tuners...and we can agree to disagree. We'll leave it alone since your tuner is ultimately responsible for how your car behaves, but keep in mind, the higher your fuel pressure, the fuel pumps will generate MORE heat with LESS output and live a SHORTER life.

Thank you Jeremy H. Although in time, I'd like to upgrade the motor and boost to go beyond 6xxrwhp, but for now I want to utilize my stock motor with the paxton, and continue having some fun at the track with only minor tune / gearing tweaks, I can simply put a new stock fuel pump in and be fine, but I don't want it going out on me within a few thousand miles with, or because of the bap, I've read that Walboro now has a similar pump as stock, but handles the extra voltage from a bap better than the stocker??. I'm wondering if just a new stock fuel pump and your wire upgrade maybe with, or without the bap might get the job done, at least until I upgrade my motor and turn up the boost?

The wire upgrade to the bap will help with that, it will lower the current draw and heat the pump makes which prolongs life.

skaarlaj said:

I know a lot of you guys will suggest a complete fuel system, so if I go this route, and anticipate maybe going with flex-fuel / E85, will my ID1000's be enough injector to support mid 600 rwhp with E85? If not, it's a "no go" because that's simply too much money for injectors again.

Click to expand...

Are you considering E85 for the safety margin or for extra power? Or maybe both? If you stay on 93 oct I assume you won't need new injectors.

JeremyH said:

http://foreinnovations.blogspot.com/2013/06/fuel-systems-and-heat.html

ROAD TRIPS: *If you insist on a road trip with your beast, disconnect or disable the pump(s) you don't need. While you're at it, fill up with 87, put a sticky note on your tach, and forget about teaching any "lessons" along the way.

Click to expand...

I guess 93 octane/E85 is mainly for safe WOT then and not to improve overall driveability? Maybe running 87 while cruising around town will keep the pistons and spark plugs a bit cleaner.

From what I'm gathering, the stock 11-14 motors with boost are (power) limited, as in you'll toss the rods usually before you start experiencing detonation with proper tuning of course.

With either a "built" engine, or more than likely a S550 5.0 motor that can handle alot more horsepower, but requiring enough boost to require either race gas, or E85 to make the power at which it can hold if you can keep detonation in check. That's why I was wondering if my ID1000's can handle 700+rwhp on E85, if not, I'll just make due with a smaller fuel system and run race gas at the track in the future instead of running E85 if I ever upgrade my motor, but if it will E85 makes all the sense to me.

Gotcha. In your original post you mentioned 600whp so I wondered what the E85 swap will be used for. Makes sense now.

Yeah man, I wouldn't consider E85 for a Coyote under 700whp, but possibly I may be able to surpass that number with a better built motor in the near future. And if that happens, I'll probably be sorry I went with ID1000's over something larger from what I'm hearing.

When you go E85 or swap injectors you will need a retune anyway. So if you do fuel upgrades in one fell swoop you only have to pay for one retune on the E85 map. Unless of course you are self tuning.

The injectors should sell quickly if/when you decide to go bigger, so that will help a bit.

Coyotes at their higher 56psi pressure can run 1000s up to around 900rwhp on e85 pretty consistently. You have plenty of injector for your 600-700rwhp goals and e85 in the future.


I usually do that myself throw in 87 with my 93 tune when I go on road trips. For the better mileage and cost savings.

My car was tuned on e85 first and my 93 tune is the same tune just with stoich adjusted and lower timing.

JeremyH said:

Coyotes at their higher 56psi pressure can run 1000s up to around 900rwhp on e85 pretty consistently. You have plenty of injector for your 600-700rwhp goals and e85 in the future.


I usually do that myself throw in 87 with my 93 tune when I go on road trips. For the better mileage and cost savings.

My car was tuned on e85 first and my 93 tune is the same tune just with stoich adjusted and lower timing.

Click to expand...

That's excellent news about the injectors!