travelers
Senior Member
Give Jon Lund a call and see what he says about your setup. I think you'll like what they can do for you.
Datalogging my O2 sensors ... help?
- Thread starter Gabe
- Start date
Give Jon Lund a call and see what he says about your setup. I think you'll like what they can do for you.
Looking at their website, it looks like Lund would charge me $650 for a mail-order tune for my application.
That's crazy rich, but regardless, I have e-mails out to them and to VMP asking if they can write a tune that can guarantee that I'd pass inspection.
Waiting on their replies.
Tonight I put another 30-40 miles on the car, and while it's fun to have full power again, nothing new on the OBD front.
Catalyst is still set, the O2's are still incomplete.
Hoping that I'll get a longer drive tomorrow.
I really wish I knew exactly what the PCM needs to see in order for it to command and complete the O2-sensor test(s).
Meaning, does it want acceleration, cruising, or a combination?
The drivecycle instructions make it sound easy. 40mph steady for 4 minutes. Joe@VMP told me you can use cruise control if you want.
The instructions are either not really telling the whole story or there is a software (tune) issue or hardware problem keeping it from passing.
Post back with what those vendors tell you please.
EDIT:
Couple threads you may at least find interesting.
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?50900-2014-Mustang-GT-Readiness-Monitor
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?48624-2011-2014-Mustang-GT-Readiness-Monitors
The instructions are either not really telling the whole story or there is a software (tune) issue or hardware problem keeping it from passing.
Post back with what those vendors tell you please.
EDIT:
Couple threads you may at least find interesting.
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?50900-2014-Mustang-GT-Readiness-Monitor
https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?48624-2011-2014-Mustang-GT-Readiness-Monitors
travelers
Senior Member
I know that mine wasn't that much but that was 2 years ago.
Thanks for posting those.
The second thread I had seen before, the OP is a buddy of mine.
Funny, the guy going by "69redmach1" I'm pretty sure it's Pete from Performance Dyno.
travelers
Senior Member
Ok, I took the car to work and checked it with our Snapon scanner and only had 3 items that required setting. Fuel sys, Components, are set and EGR which on mine wasn't set. It did list the others like Catalyst, O2s O2 heaters and the like but, Was not required.....
Like I said in Pa if your under 5K for the year you don't need emissions. I haven't had to do mine in the last 3 years.
Like I said in Pa if your under 5K for the year you don't need emissions. I haven't had to do mine in the last 3 years.
Some states are a bitch about it. NV is OBD2 only however requires it every year. CA and I assume NY are probably the biggest pain in the ass out of all. I'd probably leave the cats on permanently if I were forced to live there though that would never happen without a gun to my head.
It seems like someone needs to put together a FAQ on these cars, mods, and emissions by state.
It seems like someone needs to put together a FAQ on these cars, mods, and emissions by state.
Haven't heard back from Josh, sent him an e-mail Friday night, I thought I'd hear at least something like "we're working on it" ... my frustration just grows.
Drove the car again today, another 30-40 miles, tried the 40mph-constant thing, much harder to do than it sounds, since if somebody gets in front and I have to get off the gas, the engine load goes below the minimum test threshold of 12%, or stop lights make me stop, or people going too slow, or I'm driving too slow for the road and I'm getting run over by traffic from behind.
And this needs to be done as soon as you start the engine, 40mph for 4 minutes till ECT is up over 170 degrees.
I live 5 minutes away from a 40 mph road ... I can try doing 40 all the way there, but that's on a twisty 30mph road, so I either risk a ticket or an accident because of a car I didn't see around a corner.
Drove the car again today, another 30-40 miles, tried the 40mph-constant thing, much harder to do than it sounds, since if somebody gets in front and I have to get off the gas, the engine load goes below the minimum test threshold of 12%, or stop lights make me stop, or people going too slow, or I'm driving too slow for the road and I'm getting run over by traffic from behind.
And this needs to be done as soon as you start the engine, 40mph for 4 minutes till ECT is up over 170 degrees.
I live 5 minutes away from a 40 mph road ... I can try doing 40 all the way there, but that's on a twisty 30mph road, so I either risk a ticket or an accident because of a car I didn't see around a corner.
06 T-RED S/C GT
forum member
I'm also from PA and despite being under 5K per year for emissions exemption.. Technically speaking, your car can still be failed visually for removal of any OEM catalyst equipped devices under state and federal law..
Therefore it depends on the inspection station's discretion as to whether they choose or choose not to enforce the federal and state policy codes.. Most will however look the other way providing your car meets the required 5K per year for emissions exemption..
Gabe, if you haven't heard back from Josh yet, why not just give him a phone call instead.. Personally I'd much rather speak in person over the phone rather than wait around for an e-mail response
Gabe, if you haven't heard back from Josh yet, why not just give him a phone call instead.. Personally I'd much rather speak in person over the phone rather than wait around for an e-mail response
Funny you say that Rocky .... Josh just called me and we spoke for about 20 minutes ... we've come up with a course of action.
- Because of the pending P0420/P0430 codes my car had stored recently, he wants me to do the spacer trick on the rear O2 sensors, something usually done on cars with high-flow cats or catless cars, but sometimes done on cars where the cats might be starting to degrade, such as (possibly) mine. So now I'm looking for spacers, I don't want to do defoulers, I have done them in the past on another car, but I'd prefer to do the 1-piece spacers this time around.
- The car has a stumble during steady cruising, more pronounced at lower speeds (30-40 mph in 3rd or 4th gears), but also felt in 5th gear at 50-55mph. My thought is that there's a chance this stumble causes a drop in engine load, which could possibly cause the sensor test to get interrupted and since the stumble happens quite frequently, once or more per minute, it could certainly be the cause for the test never completing.
So I need to datalog this and send him the file, to see what that might be.
If anything he'll hopefully at least get rid of this annoying drivability problem.
For now, I just placed an order for these O2 spacers, hope they help:
Amazon.com: Universal O2 Sensor Spacer Adapter Isolator (Pack of 2): Automotive
06 T-RED S/C GT
forum member
Funny you say that Rocky .... Josh just called me and we spoke for about 20 minutes ... we've come up with a course of action.
- Because of the pending P0420/P0430 codes my car had stored recently, he wants me to do the spacer trick on the rear O2 sensors, something usually done on cars with high-flow cats or catless cars, but sometimes done on cars where the cats might be starting to degrade, such as (possibly) mine. So now I'm looking for spacers, I don't want to do defoulers, I have done them in the past on another car, but I'd prefer to do the 1-piece spacers this time around.
- The car has a stumble during steady cruising, more pronounced at lower speeds (30-40 mph in 3rd or 4th gears), but also felt in 5th gear at 50-55mph. My thought is that there's a chance this stumble causes a drop in engine load, which could possibly cause the sensor test to get interrupted and since the stumble happens quite frequently, once or more per minute, it could certainly be the cause for the test never completing.
So I need to datalog this and send him the file, to see what that might be.
If anything he'll hopefully at least get rid of this annoying drivability problem.
For now, I just placed an order for these O2 spacers, hope they help:
Amazon.com: Universal O2 Sensor Spacer Adapter Isolator (Pack of 2): Automotive
Gabe, I'm really glad that Josh called and at least came up with a possible solution with the 02 spacers.. Hopefully between the spacers and datalog your going to send him, he'll be able to properly diagnose your 02 sensor issues and provide you with a straight forward answer as to what exactly is causing them to read as not ready and provide you with a revised tune file that will finally get rid of the problem once and for all in order for your car to pass emissions..
There is a difference between a defouler and a spacer? I thought they were the same thing?
If the drivecycle is truly this finicky requiring a 40mph constant 4 mile cruise immediately after startup. That might be a Ford issue. Seems they designed it to be much too picky. There are people living in areas where this would be a serious problem. Putting the car on stands may not work either because the engine would not have a proper load placed on it.
Burned lots of gasoline, tried two different sets of spacers, and a set of gaskets or two. Had the midpipe off now at least two times once my fault because I used the wrong permatex on the spacer for the pill insert. I may be guilty of whining here. Was my decision to put an offroad pipe on to begin with.
Gabe good luck to you. I have HPT on the way and I intend to modify my monitors to show as not available. This will pass the car as-is. If down the road I get a fail for that then I will either put the stock h back on or figure out how to get the monitors passed without disabling them. I suspect there is a way and I suspect they aren't passing for me because of something in my tune. The shortcut is to disable the three stubborn monitors for now.
PS: I read a post from Shaun@AED describing the rear O2 sensors. He said they are used to actually calibrate the front wideband sensors. People disabling them in the tune, removing them, or possibly even using spacers could over time cause the front sensors to drift. I don't know if that is a bunch of nonsense or not. Just something to consider.
If the drivecycle is truly this finicky requiring a 40mph constant 4 mile cruise immediately after startup. That might be a Ford issue. Seems they designed it to be much too picky. There are people living in areas where this would be a serious problem. Putting the car on stands may not work either because the engine would not have a proper load placed on it.
Burned lots of gasoline, tried two different sets of spacers, and a set of gaskets or two. Had the midpipe off now at least two times once my fault because I used the wrong permatex on the spacer for the pill insert. I may be guilty of whining here. Was my decision to put an offroad pipe on to begin with.
Gabe good luck to you. I have HPT on the way and I intend to modify my monitors to show as not available. This will pass the car as-is. If down the road I get a fail for that then I will either put the stock h back on or figure out how to get the monitors passed without disabling them. I suspect there is a way and I suspect they aren't passing for me because of something in my tune. The shortcut is to disable the three stubborn monitors for now.
PS: I read a post from Shaun@AED describing the rear O2 sensors. He said they are used to actually calibrate the front wideband sensors. People disabling them in the tune, removing them, or possibly even using spacers could over time cause the front sensors to drift. I don't know if that is a bunch of nonsense or not. Just something to consider.
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Yeah I'm not so sure I believe Shaun on that one, it's the first I've ever heard that.
Defoulers need to be doubled up and one needs to be drilled out so the O2 sensor can fit in there.
The spacers are one-piece and no need to drill anything out.
So it's a convenience thing, I went for the spacers.
I datalogged the stumble the car has during steady cruising today, had the wife drive while I was staring at the SCT doing its thing, got it good a few times, now just need to send that log to the tuner and see what they find. Wrote down the time in the log it happened each time, so the tuner dude should have an idea.
We'll see, keep me updated on your progress too, Riptide, can't wait to find out what will fix this crap.
Defoulers need to be doubled up and one needs to be drilled out so the O2 sensor can fit in there.
The spacers are one-piece and no need to drill anything out.
So it's a convenience thing, I went for the spacers.
I datalogged the stumble the car has during steady cruising today, had the wife drive while I was staring at the SCT doing its thing, got it good a few times, now just need to send that log to the tuner and see what they find. Wrote down the time in the log it happened each time, so the tuner dude should have an idea.
We'll see, keep me updated on your progress too, Riptide, can't wait to find out what will fix this crap.
46addict
13726548
This would be nice. I know in Georgia the OBD needs to have no more than 2 monitors disabled, otherwise it's a fail regardless of CEL status. As I understand it, cat efficiency and rear o2 function involve three monitors.
For 1996 and newer cars there is no sniffer test required in my state but they are now doing "surprise" sniffer tests for 1996-up and my guess is that is aimed at cars like ours. I have a relationship with the inspector and he let me come back on a day when they weren't doing the sniffer tests.
My car is catless and I am using two o2 spacers on each side with o2 sensors and monitors (cat, evap, and o2 heater) enabled. I did not have to go through this much trouble even with my aging PCM and electronics. I wish you guys the best.
.
Well, 150 miles now with the spacers in, including about 20 miles today being hard on it, "beating it like a Honda" like a friend would say.
I figured that that's the only kind of driving that I haven't done in the last 2300 miles that I've been fighting this, so why not go out and drive it hard for a bit?
Well, it was fun, but other than almost getting pulled over twice, nothing else really exciting happened.
O2's still incomplete.
A friend says the holes at the end of the spacers are too small, and that the spacers are too long, taking the sensor way out of the exhaust stream.
He might be on to something there.
Next thing for me is to remove the spacers and go drive it hard again, see what happens.
Hope I don't get a ticket.
I figured that that's the only kind of driving that I haven't done in the last 2300 miles that I've been fighting this, so why not go out and drive it hard for a bit?
Well, it was fun, but other than almost getting pulled over twice, nothing else really exciting happened.
O2's still incomplete.
A friend says the holes at the end of the spacers are too small, and that the spacers are too long, taking the sensor way out of the exhaust stream.
He might be on to something there.
Next thing for me is to remove the spacers and go drive it hard again, see what happens.
Hope I don't get a ticket.
At least you can get your spacers in/out without removing the midpipe. Makes it pretty easy.
Speaking for myself I'd already be done with this were I you. See if you can get a tune that isn't encrypted. Get HP Tuner. Modify the tune so the sensors show as not available on the scan. Get the car passed. Then maybe work on a longer term solution after the immediate issue is out of the way.
If you have to pass a sniff test and/or visual ignore everything I just said lol.
This weekend I'm checking the monitors. If they haven't passed by then I'm taking my spacers out and am going to mod my tune to get me by for now. Long term solution is to possibly replace the sensors and then work on the tune to see if I can get the monitors to pass without disabling the tests. It takes time, patience, and expertise to do it.
Speaking for myself I'd already be done with this were I you. See if you can get a tune that isn't encrypted. Get HP Tuner. Modify the tune so the sensors show as not available on the scan. Get the car passed. Then maybe work on a longer term solution after the immediate issue is out of the way.
If you have to pass a sniff test and/or visual ignore everything I just said lol.
This weekend I'm checking the monitors. If they haven't passed by then I'm taking my spacers out and am going to mod my tune to get me by for now. Long term solution is to possibly replace the sensors and then work on the tune to see if I can get the monitors to pass without disabling the tests. It takes time, patience, and expertise to do it.
Well, how's this for an update?
My O2'S went ready about a half hour ago.
This morning I went up to Performance Dyno and Josh did a couple revisions, went for a drive cruising at about 50-55 for about 10 minutes and the catalyst went ready, something that hasn't happened that quick before.
So he adjusted fuel trims a bit to get them closer to zero, did another quick road test, and let me go on my way.
About 5-7 minutes later the catalyst went ready.
I drove home, just got to the weekly cruise night and as I was parking the sensors went ready.
So now I just have the EVAP monitor which I don't really need to have ready for a sticker, but it will probably go ready overnight after the car sits at least 8 hours.
This has now happened with the stock cats I haven't replaced yet, no O2 spacers, the smallest pulley I've installed, the 3.125", and the rest of the combo that had me at 608 rwhp.
Looking forward to my sticker Monday morning!
.
My O2'S went ready about a half hour ago.
This morning I went up to Performance Dyno and Josh did a couple revisions, went for a drive cruising at about 50-55 for about 10 minutes and the catalyst went ready, something that hasn't happened that quick before.
So he adjusted fuel trims a bit to get them closer to zero, did another quick road test, and let me go on my way.
About 5-7 minutes later the catalyst went ready.
I drove home, just got to the weekly cruise night and as I was parking the sensors went ready.
So now I just have the EVAP monitor which I don't really need to have ready for a sticker, but it will probably go ready overnight after the car sits at least 8 hours.
This has now happened with the stock cats I haven't replaced yet, no O2 spacers, the smallest pulley I've installed, the 3.125", and the rest of the combo that had me at 608 rwhp.
Looking forward to my sticker Monday morning!
.
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travelers
Senior Member
Congrats It's a shame they aren't open on Sat. I'd be over there before something changes.........LOL
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