The Great Oil Debate

travelers

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FRPP oil filters. 50% heavier than oem, and 60% more media inside + high temp silicone rubber seals, handles sustained high heat and high pressure, etc. But for a NA dd car, they are not really necessary. With a blower, I'd use em..and do.

That's the one I use for those reasons.
 

ZmanM3

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Don't care for anything labeled Royal Purple.

I buy and use Amsoil directly from amsoil.com and couldn't be happier with their oil and filters.
Some of the filters I use are WIX, also high quality.

When I buy, I order enough for several oil changes, especially when they do a free shipping promo like they did about 2-3 weeks ago.
I use Amsoil in my '13 GT (10w40 until they recently released their new 5w50), my '06 Tundra (5w30), my fiancee's '08 GT500 (10w40 until they recently released their new 5w50), and her '03 Forester (5w30):

20160505_oil.jpg

I use the a soil 10w40 on my car too. Wondering why you changed to 5w50?
 

Gabe

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I use the a soil 10w40 on my car too. Wondering why you changed to 5w50?

Both our Mustangs have Ford recommendations of full synthetic 5w50.
Was using Amsoil 10w40 when they weren't offering a 5w50 but now that they do, I'm switching both cars over to it.
 

BruceH

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Everyone has their own ideas on what to use. Here are some facts about the 4.6 mod motor:

The motor is clearanced for 5w-20, the oil pump, pressure relief valve, oil galleries, main bearings, rod bearings, cam journals, and phasers are all designed around the tight motor clearances that Ford is capable of holding with their machining equipment.

Motor oil is a multi tasker. It lubricates, carries heat away, provides positive separation between rotating components via the oil wedge, keeps proper pressure on valves via the lifters, and keeps the phasers where they are commanded to be via the vct solenoid.

All of those things weren't thought of willy nilly. A whole lot of smart people spent lots of time and money to figure this stuff out. We know it works because of the excellent reliability the mod motor has shown over the years.

The bottom line is that oil flow and pressure are fluid parameters that the motor clearance was designed around. Change viscosity and you change both of those parameters. A thicker oil will result in more pressure and less flow at first but the oil needs to make it through the bottom end and to the top. Remember that the overhead cams also need an oil wedge for positive separation. Less flow eventually means less pressure at the top. A breakdown of the wedge results in spun bearings and scored cam journals.
Will it hurt or help if you don't follow the manufacturers recommendations? We already know that 5w-20 works. I'd personally run a heavier oil with oil cooled turbos or an oil cooled supercharger, maybe if I was in a very hot environment or running the piss out of my car at all times with the motor overheating or running hot because of what I was doing. I'd also do it if my machine shop wasn't able to hold the very tight Ford clearances I ask them to machine my parts to.

I've always built my motors use the Ford clearances wherever possible and always run 5w-20. All the way up to 699rwhp.
 

BruceH

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That's the one I use for those reasons.

Here's some more info on the FRPP filter. It's heavier construction is important. A friend of mine had a stock filter blow out about half way down the 1/4. He came close to hitting the wall but was able to skid into a grassy area.

AFAIK FRPP is the only oil filter that has actual flow numbers. Very important especially in a motor that's seeing hard use and the increased flow and pressure that occurs at higher rpms.

 

BruceH

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Info for anyone who is interested in how Ford describes the lubricating system for the 4.6 3 valve motor:







 

Possum77

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Oil filters

New to this thread. The thread is interesting though. Some mention of filters here, so I have a question for the 05 GT 4.6 owners. What size filters are you using? I bought this car 2 yrs ago with 54K miles and its very clean. Part books keep leading me to the large diameter/short can filters. This car has the small diameter/short can filter ( a VO 105 is on it). No Ford house in area and all this started with a bad oil switch. I'm just trying to understand this motor/car.
 

skwerl

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The newer 5.0 motors have the same filter mount but use a smaller filter than the 4.6. They are interchangeable, though. Slightly different backflow spring pressure but you're probably better off running the bigger filter like it calls for.
 

Gabe

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The short can/large diameter is probably the FL820
The 5.0 will accept that filter even though it calls for the FL500
I've used both, which tells me you can too.
The Boss302S uses a Ford Racing FL820 filter even though it's a 5.0
I'm thinking the large-diameter/short can 820 is a better overall filter, and it's probably cheaper too.
Check rockauto.com, they should have them super cheap
 

stkjock

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I would not use 5w-20 on a 3v specially when both chief engineers have specifically said to not use a 20 weight on a 3v...

isn't 5w-20 factory fill and recommended? Been a half dozen years since I owned a 3V so my memory on that is not certain.
 

Speed+Clinic

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It is what the cap says but they are a lot of factors that come into play. Think about this: 99-00 mustangs required 5w-30 and then suddenly in 01+ they changed to 5w-20. Was there any change at all inside the engine other than CAFE standards coming into play?

Also some relevant quotes:
Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"


Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."

Unless I see anyone with more pedigree stating for 5w-20 then I will go with what the dude that designed the 3v says...

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?675202-Oil-Viscosity-for-DOHC
 

BruceH

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It is what the cap says but they are a lot of factors that come into play. Think about this: 99-00 mustangs required 5w-30 and then suddenly in 01+ they changed to 5w-20. Was there any change at all inside the engine other than CAFE standards coming into play?

Also some relevant quotes:
Mike Riley, Product Design Engineer with Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"Moving to 5w20 was driven by ... CAFE requirements. The company believes the switch to lighter viscosity 5w20 oils will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 190,000 metric tons a year and reduce US fuel consumption by over 21,000,000 gallons a year."



FRPP Group:

Quote:
"DO NOT go back to using 5w-20"


Scott Whitehead - Engine Development Systems Engineer, Ford Motor Company:

Quote:
"I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please. This is especially true in 4v motors. 5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures."

Unless I see anyone with more pedigree stating for 5w-20 then I will go with what the dude that designed the 3v says...

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?675202-Oil-Viscosity-for-DOHC

The motor was clearanced for 5w-20 despite his input to have it clearanced for 5w-30. Clearances aren't decided willy nilly, and they will always dictate what viscosity is best for the motor.

If you want to use an oil viscosity that the motor clearances weren't designed for it's your business. After all it's your hard earned money.

The downside of using different viscosity than the motor was designed for is the higher chance of spun bearings, scored cam journals, and a failed valvetrain. Even the hydraulic lash adjusters for a 3v are designed around 5w-20.

All mod motors aren't the same. The 3v was another generational leap over the 2v and older 4v. Comparing wear between 5w-20 and 5w-30 in an older motor that was designed for 5w-30 isn't a good comparison. To me it's apples to oranges.

A wear test on an older generation of mod motor that was clearanced for 5w-30 should show less wear with the oil it was clearanced for, in this case 5w-30. After all that's where the optimal oil wedge is going to set up to prevent metal to metal contact.

I would wish anyone good luck in whatever they do with this expensive hobby. I'd also invite people to learn what the motor does and why.

Here's a great place to start when it comes to the 3v:

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=158
 

cbass

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Engineering explained is super informative if you can get past his nasal delivery.
 

46addict

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I'm asking because I watched the videos on how much better they are at filtering the oil, so I bought and used Royal Purple 5w 30 and the Royal Purple oil for my high mileage 2005 GT... And I'm having an issue.

After installing the RP filter and oil, I noticed that ill only have good torque while the engine is cold but as soon as the engine gets to peak operating temp, I'll have less torque. I'm wondering if the oil filter is too restrictive and not allowing my phasers or timing to go where it needs to in order to produce the power that I'm used to experiencing at peak operating temp...?

Your thoughts?

If no one has experienced this, well I'll know if it's the filters fault cause I'm due for another oil change in a week so I'll use a motorcraft filter and another oil and see if that changes anything as far as torque at peak operating temp.
This sounds more like a IAT/ECT/knock sensor activity problem than an oil filter problem. I'm not sure how well reviewed the RP filters are but the Motorcraft FL820S and FRPP filters have been proven to work. You need to pick a filter that has a silicone anti-drainback valve to minimize start-up wear. I would switch to either one of the filters mentioned for the sake of preventative maintenance.

As for the loss of torque sensation, I'm betting it has to do with ambient temps elevating your inlet air temp and coolant temps. Both of which have an effect on timing retard once they cross a threshold. And on the off chance that you filled up on a bad tank of gas, your knock sensors will be more active. This also affects timing. The best way to find out what's going on is through a datalog.
 

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