My car is driving me insane

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
Ok, I searched and found a couple threads that are close to touching my issue, but not completely. One guy had a similar issue, but found his tune was bad in his car. I dont believe this to be my issue, but I'll let you chime in on it.

I have a 2005 GT 5 speed, it's got a Roushcharger on it, as well as a Roush calibrated ECM, and a Viper R350 alarm system. almost 2 weeks ago, I drove the car home from work, like normal. I stopped by a cousins house, shut the car off, and when I came back out to leave, nothing. Everything powers up as it should, windows, radio, HVAC, lights, all work. But when you hit the key, the starter is silent. So I jumped the clutch switch with a paper clip, and no luck. I push started it, and drove it home, and parked it in the shop, and it ran perfectly fine, and everything worked great, except the starter. So almost 2 weeks later, and I'm still not having any luck. So far I have had a brand new SJB installed and programmed by the dealership, a new clutch switch, new ignition switch, and have used both keys to try to start it. I have checked for voltage at the battery, starter, starter fuses, and there is no trigger voltage to the solenoid, but you can hear the relay in the SJB clicking. I hooked a solenoid jumper switch up to the starter, and it will start the car with a quickness. I am now sniffing around the Viper R350 alarm, thinking maybe this is the culprit? I un hooked where the starter disable relay taps into the ignition switch, but that did nothing. I'm thinking un-install the viper completely, and if that is not the issue, then it has to be PATS related, am I thinking correct? P.S. Sorry for the book, but trying to be as descriptive as possible.
 

Gab

Bullitthead
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Posts
100
Reaction score
9
Since the relay in the SJB is clicking, I would look for an open wire between the SJB and the starter solenoid.
 

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
I'm going to check continuity between the two tonight, I kind of thought the same thing. But since bypassing the starter relay on the viper, I thought it would give me something, but since it didn't, I'm wondering if the programming from the dealership is correct. So many avenues to go down smh...
 

Macman45

Resident Geriatric
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Posts
1,446
Reaction score
172
Location
Atlanta / Bay Area
You may have already tested this, but does the relay in the starter work? That is, is it properly sending a 12v signal directly from the battery to the starter when the key is turned? I know tossing 12v on the lead of the starter will work, but there is a relay inside to jump the massive current from the battery directly to the starter. I would poke around the terminals of the starter with a multimeter and see if the signal from the key is making it there. If it is, it's got to be the relay inside the starter
 

06JET

forum member
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Posts
482
Reaction score
87
Location
West Bend WI
Did they connect the alarm system to the solenoid wire or any other wire with a press on connector? The one with the u shape that you press over the wire and it cuts thru the insulation. I have had it actually cut the wire. Not at first but after a length of time the wire breaks. Let us know after you check continuity of the wire what you find but also check all of the alarm connections.
 

Turbotungsten

forum member
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Posts
144
Reaction score
2
Have someone push down on the rear of the power distribution box while you are trying to start it. My car did the same thing a couple years ago and that did the trick. I took apart the entire power distribution box, depinning every wire, then put it back together. I thought this fixed it, but it still does the same thing occasionally. When it does, I just push in the rear of the box and it does the trick. Somehow the starter relay just isn't making good contact. It's a shot in the dark for you to try.
 

86GT351

forum member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Posts
5,993
Reaction score
895
Location
Sunny South Florida
Thought here with the Alarm install. How are the wires attached to the factory wiring? Are they soldered in any way? Or did they use scotch locks to splice the extra wire? I ask because I had a similar issue with my 86 GT. Battery in Trunk and a disconnect switch. Randomly I would get absolutely nothing. Thought it was my power master starter. Sent back and checked out perfect. Went ahead and traced the wiring since there is a wire tuck on my car it made it challenging. Found under the dash near the clutch pedal, there is a wire as part of the ignition switch that was connected with a scotch lock. Undid the lock and properly soldered. Have not had an issue since.

Z_yrvyfo5oy.JPG
 

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
Thanks for all of the ideas and responses guys! Every little bit helps me, because I'm not a wiring guy lol. I have not seen any scotch lock type connectors, everything seems to either be soldered, or butt connected, even though I did find one wire that was almost pulled out of the connector, but I repaired. As for the solenoid, the trigger wire for it has continuity between it and pin#87 on the starter relay in the Bus electrical center (under hood fuse box), but no power or trigger to it. Shouldn't that come from the PCM or SJB? I know the PCM has 2 pins that are starter related, there is a STR REQ, and a STR ENABLE pin. So I'm guessing my issue is between those, and the SJB. My next question about my question (redundant, I know) is this a PATS issue if that is the case? I'm trying to differentiate between Viper Alarm issues, PATS issues, and a good old fashioned starter circuit issue. And losing hair by the second lol.
 

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
No, I had it to the dealership last week for the new SJB, and back in my shop since then. I'm wondering if the sjb was an issue, and the re-program is now my issue? I'm going to do some more chasing on Sunday, hopefully figure out which pins on the PCM are for those two starter circuits. I'm in a wedding and swamped until then. Sucks, I would love to have my car for this, but my skanky 99 Super Duty will be trusted with this job lol. Why cant they make them all that dependable...
 

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
Well, I was advised by the cars po to try a transciever, and no dice. So I re-installed my old one, and ran a jumper from the ignition switch wire to the starter relay. It's only temporary until I can figure this out, but at least I have use of my car for now. The Viper still works, but starter disable does not. I need to find a pin out on the PCM, as well as the buss'ed electrical center (under hood fuse box, and a break down of the connectors on the SJB. I'm still not convinced my issue is not now a program that wasnt done right.
 

redfirepearlgt

forum member
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Posts
2,497
Reaction score
263
http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=40&f=Starting System.pdf&p=2

Any questions let me know if I can help. I am not too bad at reading schematics. But in order to help you need to be able to use a voltmeter.

If you are not getting voltage to the coil of the starter relay this is your problem. The car starting assures you the PCM circuit side is working, that F4 that feeds the starter relay coil is also good. It also verifies that all grounds are good. So the source from which this circuit gets it's power from is the likely culprit. BEC Connector C1035B pin E10 is the source from where the Starter Relay gets its power. You could pull the relay first and probe the connection that pin 86 on the relay goes into and see if you have 12vdc at start on the ignition. If not then the next place according to the prints would be oddly enough (haven't looked deep enough into the prints as to why they do this yet) again at the BEC at Connector C1035B pin B9 which is a White wire with a Pink Stripe. If you have power there and not at the coil, next isolate and ring out the wiring between these two points. Also check to see if somehow the Viper System (I hate all aftermarket Alarms) has been spliced in between those two points. If so the Viper is the problem IMHO. If not then there is a problem in the BEC. As I recall this has happened before where a BEC goes bad within that back plane that routes power throughout the box.

Good luck
 

Insaneba

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Posts
47
Reaction score
0
I know this thread went silent for a few months, but I thought I would add where I am with this right now. I believe the problem the entire time, has been a starter with an attitude. I have the out signal from the ignition switch, ran straight to the output terminal of the starter relay, which makes the starter a "direct wired" set up. Even with this current set up, and even though the starter should hit every time the key is turned, sometimes it does not. You still have to bump the key a few times to make it come to life. A co-worker listened to it one day, and said it was "clicking" near the starter, which leads me to believe the starter has been my problem the whole time lol. I'm going to dig into it in the next month or two, when the car comes off the ground. I will post my findings. My guess, is a new starter, and or connections will fix it up.
 

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top