Front LCA Bushing Options

Vorshlag-Fair

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...I also experienced an issue with my Energy Suspension bushings that's worth mentioning. When I first installed them, I forgot to order zerk fittings and grease, and since I was limited on time, I just used the grease that came with the bushings. I put ~540 miles on them including ~45 min of track use, and I took them back off to install zerk fittings. The rear bushings looked brand-new, but when I removed the front bushings, they basically crumbled into pieces.

Here are some pictures of the carnage:
IMG_1208_zpsqdpwsktw.jpg


IMG_1196_zpsgpkiz8ux.jpg


I noticed some minor squeaking over rumble strips, but otherwise, they were silent, and there was little resistance when I moved the control arm. I was very surprised to see this kind of damage with such little use.

I called Energy Suspension and emailed them a lot of pictures, and their engineering team said it was caused by a manufacturing defect that shouldn't happen again. Interestingly, they also recommended AGAINST installing zerk fittings because drilling/cutting the bushing could cause tearing when it's stressed. I installed zerk fittings anyway. I've put another ~1500 miles including ~3 hours of track time since then, and I haven't noticed any issues, so hopefully they're fine now. I haven't pulled the control arms off again, but there is no compliance when I tug on the wheels. Hopefully nobody else has this problem.

Great pics, and yea... that looks like a bushing that was made wrong. Energy Suspensions isn't the worlds best brand, but they do make a lot of offerings and generally speaking they work well. That seems like a bit of a fluke - sorry you experienced that. We sell Energy... and Powerflex... and Whiteline... and other brands of polyurethane / non-rubber elastomer bushings and I feel they ARE appropriate for many dual purpose and even purpose built track and autocross cars. Let me make my case....

DSC_0652a-M.jpg


The Energy Kit for the S197 front LCA is pretty basic. The rearmost bushings are the MOST important ones to replace. Many times we leave the front bushings alone, but if they are made right, installed right, and greased they should last a decade or more. I'm not saying that "ddd4114" did anything wrong here - those do look like they weren't made correctly. Greasing those wouldn't have likely made a difference, but long term use without grease zerks can and will kill a poly bushing.

DSC_0932-M.jpg


We show picture this in our instructions for the S197 Energy Bushings but not everyone reads them - the knurled finish on the LCA part that inserts into the bushings needs to be sanded smooth, otherwise it will chew up the poly bushings as shown above. This is present on the stock control arms for the rearmost front LCA bushing.

DSC_0957-M.jpg


Adding a grease zerk to ANY poly bushing is muey importante! I cannot overstress this point. :)

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There is never a polyurethane bushing we install at my shop that does NOT get a grease zerk. I just don't give the customer the option to "opt out"....

DSC_9923-M.jpg


Corvette, Miata, Mustang - don't care. If it is a bushing that pivots (in ONE axis) and is made of "not rubber", it gets a grease zerk or it doesn't get installed. We've seen non-greased poly bushings last less than ONE YEAR... so its just become policy here. ZERK THEM ALL. #PolyLivesMatter

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B61G3262-S.jpg


If the class rules, customer's budget, and the car's intended use all allow for a metal spherical bushing, then sure... that's a better way to go. But NOT all bushing locations or race car builds NEED metal or even Delrin bushings. These will wear faster, make more noise, and add suspension "slop" when worn. We never used these on pivoting control arm bushings for street cars unless it has some sort of weather tight enclosure. Those do exist... some BMW rear suspension bushings are spherical from the factory, BTW. But they are VERY well protected from rain and dirt.

DSC_9757-M.jpg


Likewise, Polyurethane material has its limitations. It is NEVER appropriate to use a solid poly bushing in a "dual axis of rotation" suspension joint. The BMW E46 LCA shown above uses a 2-piece, 2 durometer poly bushing to combat this. The hole for grease to travel is drilled through the housing and the outer poly bushing. This way grease can travel all the way to the inner pivot point - where the two poly pieces meet.

Regarding performance, I also have noticed little benefit (after adding poly LCA bushings). At the same time, I've noticed little detriment to ride quality. My lap times aren't any better, and the response of the car hasn't changed. Despite the durability problems of the OEM bushings, I'm almost tempted to suggest replacing the OEM control arms (at ~$140/ea.) instead of spending the money and time on installing poly bushings. I'll have to keep an eye on mine over time to see how well they hold up.

With all due respect, scientific track testing is slightly different than seat of the pants testing or even just a causal look at lap times. :) But there is an easy test you can do with an S197 Mustang to SEE what the nasty fluid filled LCA bushings can do...

_DSF6024-M.jpg


With a stock S197 with the massive rubber/fluid filled front LCA bushing installed, do this.... have a buddy drive the car while you stand nearby. Have them accelerate to about 20 mph than stomp on the brakes. It helps if you stand where the car will come to rest. WATCH the wheel squirm fore-aft (wheelbase change) and in/out (toe change) as it comes to a stop. It doesn't take much braking effort or speed to SEE this happen. I've done this with lots of folks and its pretty eye opening (I need to make a video). That toe change only gets worse as brake pad friction and mechanical tire grip goes up. It changes the turn in feel, tire wear, braking stability and more. I've driven so many of these cars with and without poly bushings I can always tell the difference just by driving them hard.... I can feel the wheel flopping around with the stock rubber bits.

DSC_0935-S.jpg
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Poly bushings remove that flex and slop that the OEM rubber bushings have - the rearmost bushing on the front control arm makes the biggest difference here. Its the size of a beer can and filled with goo. "Goo" is not a good suspension material. :insane:

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Of course when we load these cars laterally in a corner (again, this is amplified on better compound & wider tires / firmer spring rates) the stock fluid filled ding-dong LCA bushings will DEFLECT so much that you will lose "dynamic" camber. Between the giant rubber strut top mount and the big rubber front LCA bushing you could lose 2 degrees of camber or more in a corner. That will show up over time as adverse tire wear at the shoulder, less lateral grip, etc.

B61G5626-M.jpg


This is where high quality pictures taken at an autocross or track day come in very handy - and why we take and post so many pictures at events like these. We can then look at the car loaded up in a corner and SEE things that you might not feel from behind the wheel. This guy above probably things he's hauling the mail, but in fact he's losing so much camber that the outside front tire is losing much of its available grip and shredding the outer shoulder. Poly bushings added to this car can usually be class legal for all but the stockest of classes, won't break the bank, can ride well and last a long time - if properly installed and greased.

B61G6419-M.jpg


Rubber suspension bushings can become or are often intended to be bonded to the control arm points or swaybar, and that often adds unwanted suspension bind. These rubber bushing points then have to pivot against themselves to rotate. To do that enough means they have to be soft. We often see OEM swaybar bushings that are rubber but "bound up" so badly we cannot rotate the swaybar in the chassis mounts with the endlinks removed. That is BAD and one thing we aim to fix with aftermarket bushings - be they poly, Delrin, or spherical.

DSC_9759-M.jpg


Any pivot point in any suspension should move smoothly and with almost no effort with the springs removed. We will do this on cars and use the "pinkie finger" test.... if it takes more than a pinkie finger's effort to rotate a control arm or swaybar with the endlink, spring and/or strut damping removed, there's unwanted bind in the system. That bind is something a damper can't control, and makes for a funky driving feel in a highly tuned setup.

JPGcropbetter_DSC1457%20copy-M.jpg


So that's why I feel poly has its place in HPDE, autocross and Motorsports - it has it's place and it's limitations. When used correctly poly bushings can remove slop and bind from your car's suspension, and reduce camber loss and toe change. While ddd4114 had some bad luck, and that's unfortunate, but it is very much not the norm. We've used poly bushings in hundreds of cars with excellent luck, as long as they get installed and greased regularly (1-2 times per year).

So anyway, that's my 2 cents on poly bushings. :)

Cheers,
 
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zquez

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GT500's definitely have some sort of limiter. I hate trying to turn around in those things, you hit the locks so quickly.

I'm reasonably sure they're all the same. The GT500 might have steering limiters??? I don't know that for sure and heard it from a "somewhat reliable" source.

Since we're talking about this, is there a way to remove the limiters? I'm on the verge of putting a GT500 EPAS rack in my 06. Then again, maybe the limiters will be good for saving a track car's brake ducts...
 

Whiskey11

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Before Energy Front Bushings:


After:


Watch the ball joint to see the difference in deflection under braking.
 

ddd4114

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Great pics, and yea... that looks like a bushing that was made wrong. Energy Suspensions isn't the worlds best brand, but they do make a lot of offerings and generally speaking they work well. That seems like a bit of a fluke - sorry you experienced that.
Yeah, shit happens, and since they owned up to it and sent me replacement bushings, I can't complain too much. Nobody makes a perfect product (or they wouldn't still be in business), and I didn't mean to imply that they make crappy bushings in general. As you said, I was just unlucky.

With all due respect, scientific track testing is slightly different than seat of the pants testing or even just a causal look at lap times. :)
That's fair (no pun intended). You have way more experience than me, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can feel those subtleties more easily than me. However - let me qualify my statement.

If you're among a competitive field in some kind of racing class (TT, W2W, AutoX, moving to the fastest run group in HPDE, etc.), and stiffer (poly) bushings can give you a slight edge within the confines of the rules, then they're absolutely worth it. You're right; the rubber bushings are a source of unwanted compliance, and poly bushings will help to reduce it. For the rest, I'm ambivalent about them being worth the hassle. They're cheap, but installing them is a total pain in the ass, and they do require regular (albeit limited) maintenance. If you neglect the maintenance enough to cause damage, you have to replace them entirely. On the other hand, as we mentioned, the rear bushings in the FLCA's are so weak that they have to replaced eventually anyway.

I haven't done a direct comparison after changing only bushings, but I do take more than a casual look at data. I'll gladly pay for tenths of a second, which is why I'm keeping my poly bushings. That being said, I haven't seen any significant improvement in grip (lateral or in braking) after installing the poly bushings. My car does produce much less grip than yours did because I've built mine for TTB, so that could be part of the difference in experience. I'm still keeping the poly bushings for the fundamental difference that you mentioned - to minimize dynamic camber and toe changes. However, for the casual track day / HPDE junkie or spirited driver, I just don't see them being totally worth it. If you're in that group, and your bushings are leaking oil like mine were, then maybe poly is a good replacement option. Otherwise if the bushings haven't torn yet, I don't think they're worth touching until they do. Of course, as they say, opinions are like assholes...

Anyway, thanks for detailed post. Despite Energy Suspension recommending against installing zerk fittings, I agree that they're basically a necessity. I was very surprised to read that from them. I definitely feel like I half-assed the installation at first by not using them, but I suppose I got pretty lucky that I didn't. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have pulled the control arms back off until the bushings had failed more significantly, and that could have made the repair more of a chore.
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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If you're among a competitive field in some kind of racing class (TT, W2W, AutoX, moving to the fastest run group in HPDE, etc.), and stiffer (poly) bushings can give you a slight edge within the confines of the rules, then they're absolutely worth it. ... For the rest, I'm ambivalent about them being worth the hassle.

...

However, for the casual track day / HPDE junkie or spirited driver, I just don't see them being totally worth it. If you're in that group, and your bushings are leaking oil like mine were, then maybe poly is a good replacement option. Otherwise if the bushings haven't torn yet, I don't think they're worth touching until they do.

Good points. Like we say about racing - Everything is a compromise. Your well written reasoning above could be said for ANY modifications we do to our cars...

- Track pads make more noise, don't work cold, produce tons of dust (but stop better hot)
- Racing seats are harder to get into/out of, don't recline, and make street driving a bit less comfortable (but are safer, give the driver more control/feedback, and reduce fatigue on track)
- Competition monotube adjustables have a shorter maintenance cycle, are usually coupled with much firmer spring rates which won't ride as cushy on the street, and cost more than OEM style shocks (but boy do they work well on track!)
- I could give 100 more examples....

Everything we do to our cars to make them faster has the associated Pros and Cons. And I think "ddd4114" has the right idea bout poly front LCA bushings, too. They ARE a total PITA to install (and hopefully my many posts on this forum about them have shown that - WE still hate doing these in our shop with a 30 ton press, torches, and all of the tricks) and the benefit is hard to put a number on. You can SEE this stock bushing movement, as Whiskey's videos show, and that is not something that is beneficial to handling, braking, or long term tire wear.

B61G9485-M.jpg


What we tell people about poly bushings (and many other mods) is this: if you are getting fast enough and competitive to be checking lap times, or if you keep "numbers on the doors" at all times... you are a good candidate for poly bushings. This could be for a more advanced HPDE driver, Nationally competitive autocrossers, Time Trial racers, etc. But not everyone is a good candidate for poly.

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One of the most difficult things about our job here at Vorshlag is talking people OUT of mods that we feel aren't appropriate for their car, their situation, their budget, or their end use. Its hard to turn away sales/business, but in the long run its the right thing to do. We have a chair and couch in our lobby where we often sit and talk folks down to reality... feel like Dr. Freud sometimes, heh. "Tell me about your dreamz..." Its harder to do this on the phone - to gauge where a driver is in the "ladder" of competitiveness - but we try our best. All shops have to do this.

Anyway, I hope now that folks better understand the hassles, maintenance, and limitations of non-rubber bushings after reading this thread. :)

Cheers,
 

ddd4114

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I figured it would be good to post an update about the bushing failure I described above since it was quite an ordeal this past season.

In post #12 I mentioned that Energy Suspension said the failure was due to a manufacturing defect, sent me a new set, and I said that I had no problems after that. The only change I made during the installation was adding zerk fittings, so I ASSumed that the failure was either a defect or a lubrication problem.

Unfortunately, the replacement set failed as well:
IMG_1254_zpst9gcskpn.jpg


Toward the end of a weekend event at Road America after installing the second set of bushings, I started noticing a weird handling problem that felt like the steering system suddenly had a much larger "dead zone" on-center, and that's not a problem you want to have at that track. Taking the kink fast was a bit unsettling.

At this point, it seemed unlikely that I got a second bad set, and since I was using zerk fittings, I doubted that the failure was due to poor lubrication. Once again, I contacted Energy Suspension, and I gave them a bunch of measurements. Based on the failure mode, I suspected that my OEM sleeves were too short, and the bushing was being compressed too much. I was short on time, so I had a local machine shop make slightly longer sleeves, and I installed yet another new set of bushings with them.

I drove 6 hours to my next event, and when I arrived, the bushings looked pristine. However, within 15 minutes of driving on-track, they failed again:
IMG_1293_zpspmpdpfxq.jpg


In fact, the failure got so bad that one of my wheels started violently shaking when driving in a straight line. Basically, the ends of the bushing were worn enough that the control arm was bouncing forward and backward freely in the subframe.

At this point, Energy Suspension had two suspicions: the OD of my sleeves was too small to preload the bushings correctly, and I needed a harder bushing material for my application. They sent me a set of sleeves machined to their specification, and they also made a new set of bushings with a higher durometer polyurethane. Thankfully, they worked! I ran three full weekends on the new bushings, and they've been holding up fine. I don't know if the sleeve OD was the problem or I really needed harder bushings, but whatever the case, I really hope I don't have to pull the control arms off for a 5th time.

After I found the bushings were holding up, I asked Energy Suspension if they would consider making this spec available as a "race" option, but they never responded. I think they're convinced that my modifications to the bushings to use zerk fittings were what caused the failures, and while I doubt it, I can understand their perspective. It's also worth mentioning that I didn't have a single issue with the gigantic rear bushings; only the front ones were failing. If I was to do the whole thing over again, I would only replace the rear bushings with polyurethane because they're very compliant and are prone to tearing.

Hopefully people who are considering poly bushings can learn from my experience. I'm curious if anybody else has had bushing failures like this (even on cars other than S197 Mustangs). Also, despite this whole ordeal being a pain in the ass, I'll reiterate that Energy Suspension was very helpful the whole time, so I have no complaints about their customer service.
 

ddd4114

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No, I just replaced the OEM rubber bushings with poly bushings. I couldn't replace them with anything other than poly due to class rules. Otherwise, I probably would have tried Delrin or something.
 

Norm Peterson

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IMG_1254_zpst9gcskpn.jpg


Toward the end of a weekend event at Road America after installing the second set of bushings, I started noticing a weird handling problem that felt like the steering system suddenly had a much larger "dead zone" on-center, and that's not a problem you want to have at that track. Taking the kink fast was a bit unsettling.

At this point, it seemed unlikely that I got a second bad set, and since I was using zerk fittings, I doubted that the failure was due to poor lubrication. Once again, I contacted Energy Suspension, and I gave them a bunch of measurements. Based on the failure mode, I suspected that my OEM sleeves were too short, and the bushing was being compressed too much. I was short on time, so I had a local machine shop make slightly longer sleeves, and I installed yet another new set of bushings with them.

I drove 6 hours to my next event, and when I arrived, the bushings looked pristine. However, within 15 minutes of driving on-track, they failed again:
IMG_1293_zpspmpdpfxq.jpg
The more I look at these pictures, the easier it gets to think that the bushing material became degraded, quite possibly by the particular lubrication(s) used. Too many small granule-size bits and pieces.

The bushings look like they were softened like with a solvent, which then permitted contact between the bolt and what looks like an outer sleeve, distorting the sleeve. The earlier pictures appear to have caused the sleeve distortion directly from cornering force on the outside front wheel. Some of the sleeve distortion in this later picture could have been from excessive angularity under extreme braking due to the rear bushing becoming too compliant, though the sleeve is pretty beat up most of the way around it.


Norm
 
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ddd4114

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It's possible, but I don't think it's likely because on the first install (from which the aftermath is shown in the original pictures), I only used the supplied grease from Energy Suspension. Since then, I've been using Prothane 19-1751, which is a waterproof grease that's designed for polyurethane bushings and is applied with a combination of a grease gun and my fingers. However, I still used that grease with the most recent install (which is working). I did use brake cleaner to clean the surfaces on the subframe, sleeve, etc., but I was careful to wipe away the residue before assembling everything.

My ASSumption was that as the bushing began to tear and rub against the subframe, grease was displaced, it began to overheat locally, and small pieces began shedding off of it. Do you think I'm missing something? I never removed a bushing before it completely failed, so it's hard to determine the initial effects.
 

Norm Peterson

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Are you still running the same leaky rear hydro-bushings?

I would assume that hydro bushings that are low on fluid would behave like shocks in similar condition and permit a lot more easy movement at the
rear attachment point. That becomes rotation at the front bushing (the kind that poly hates) and triangular-ish stress distributions that peak at the
faces of the poly (arrows, below). Far more peak stress than the stress that comes directly from cornering (which gets applied
more or less
uniformly along the entire length of the inner sleeves - this being the only kind of stress you want any cylindrical poly bushing to ever see.

Picture vs 1k words section . . . here's what I think may be happening when the rear bushing allows lateral movement at the rear of the
LCA (and the ball joint and wheel/tire recede longitudinally in reaction to bumps and braking). A rubber front bushing tolerates
this, poly does not.

picture.php



FWIW, I've used 3M silicone paste for lubricating all but a couple of the polyurethane bushings that I've ever installed.


Norm
 
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ddd4114

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I'm also using polyurethane at the rear, and those have held up great:
IMG_1225_zps3orrcn5b.jpg



I still can't explain what was causing all of these problems, but it's strange that other people - like Vorshlag - have used the same Energy Suspension bushings in S197's with more grip and more weight and haven't had this issue. That suggests it's (probably) not a fundamental design issue, but it could be some issue with tolerance stack-up that is unfavorable with my car. Maybe I have some weird combination of an oversized subframe clevis and undersized inner bushing sleeve. Maybe the car gods were just angry with me last season.
 

y5e06

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these failures must be a very frustrating ordeal.
I ordered some ES bushings and will be installing them soon. I haven't learned my lesson either. I had ES bushings constantly fail on a 4th gen F-body (caster bushing, crap design).
based upon your ongoing saga and above commentary I think I will just do the beer-can bushing w/ a zerk and leave the front small one alone for now (OEM).
I thought about the whiteline stuff, but at 5x the price I think I'll try these first....
 

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