Broken followers?

05stroker

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Anyone ever figure this out? My new motor has not ran correctly from thr start. I just assumed it was due to the compression change and the car needing the tune adjusted. Its felt a little off from the start so I tried to do a short wot last week for Manuel and it started to run worse. I did a compression test and here it is.

1. 155
2. 155
3. 155
4. 60
5. 155
6. 60/25/35
7. 155
8. 155

Number six varies due to all three followers being broke.

 

05stroker

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^^^ Also I checked the cylinders with a bore scope and I see no valve marks on the pistons that I can see. Im going to pull the front cover and check the timing. I have never had an issue with jumping time since I started using the old metal rachet tensioners and priming my motors prior to start up.
 
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travelers

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Have you thought about using Jesel followers? I know there not cheap but better then a rebuild.
 

weather man

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Have you thought about using Jesel followers? I know there not cheap but better then a rebuild.

Those Jesel followers were the hardest mod dollars I have ever spent. If the 3V motor hadn't come out during the great recession, I think we would have had more follower options a long time ago.
 

05stroker

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Have you thought about using Jesel followers? I know there not cheap but better then a rebuild.

If I pull the cover tomorrow and the timing is good, and nothing else to blame, my first phone call on Monday is to Jesel. I have had the bearings seize before but nothing like this. These followers look brand new except that they are in two peices. Keep in mind, this motor has had one very short WOT and only 90 miles or so. These are slso very new followers, I replaced them with the last motor.
 

05stroker

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Also, either way this motor is coming out, I have a BB 323 stroker at the machine shop now. I was going to wait till the fall, but not now.

If I find a simple issue tomorrow and it can be fixed with the new followers from jesel then I may wait till this fall
 

BruceH

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IMO the bigger question is what caused so many followers to fail? it's not common for this to happen especially to all three in one cylinder.

I'm grasping here but all I can think of is hydrolock. The piston being so filled with fuel or coolant that the hydraulic pressure was able to find a weak link during the crankshaft stroke. The weakest link being the followers. Stronger or more expensive followers aren't going to change whatever broke 3 followers that are all common to one piston.

This brings up another thought I've had. What happens when a small piston bore like the 4.6 has a huge fuel requirement (read more than 800rhwp) and for some reason the fuel doesn't ignite. It could be due to a bad coil, spark plug, fuel injector or something along that line.

IMO a hydrolock could happen and it would find the weakest link in the compression cycle.

Just something to think about.
 

RocketcarX

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^^^ Also I checked the cylinders with a bore scope and I see no valve marks on the pistons that I can see. Im going to pull the front cover and check the timing. I have never had an issue with jumping time since I started using the old metal rachet tensioners and priming my motors prior to start up.

What was breaking/happening before that forced the tensioner change? How are you priming the oil system on a mod motor?
I don't have any solutions, just curious about the data.
 

travelers

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IMO the bigger question is what caused so many followers to fail? it's not common for this to happen especially to all three in one cylinder.

I'm grasping here but all I can think of is hydrolock. The piston being so filled with fuel or coolant that the hydraulic pressure was able to find a weak link during the crankshaft stroke. The weakest link being the followers. Stronger or more expensive followers aren't going to change whatever broke 3 followers that are all common to one piston.

This brings up another thought I've had. What happens when a small piston bore like the 4.6 has a huge fuel requirement (read more than 800rhwp) and for some reason the fuel doesn't ignite. It could be due to a bad coil, spark plug, fuel injector or something along that line.

IMO a hydrolock could happen and it would find the weakest link in the compression cycle.

Just something to think about.

I think it would only hydrolock if the valves are closed, if either the intake or exhaust valves were open that would prevent the cylinder from hydrolocking.
 

05stroker

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I didnt have a chance to check anything today, thats a whole nother thread for anther day, (not my car). Good suggestions coming though. I really want to find the issue before I pull anymore parts of the car.
 

05stroker

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I did some more testing on this today. I still dont have the cover off since I cannot find the bolts for my balancer puller. I did put air into the two effected cylinders though though the spark plug holes. With the valves in the closed position I have air entering the intake from #4 and into the crank case or inside the motor on #6. I turned the motor over till the links lined back up on the cam phasers and I will get the cover of tomorrow or Saturday morning, but it looks like the timing is off at the crank to me based on the position of the tabs on the cam phasers.
 

05stroker

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Okay got after this today, timing is spot on. I do have two bent intake valves on #4 from my rod breaking on the previous motor. I should have had it checked like I always do and I did not this time.

Now, the issue on #6 is puzzling. I have all three followers broken and after more ivestigation, the forward intake follower on #7 is cracked in the exact same spot as the three on #6.

Here is a pic of the pistons on bank 2.

 

swflastang05

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Okay got after this today, timing is spot on. I do have two bent intake valves on #4 from my rod breaking on the previous motor. I should have had it checked like I always do and I did not this time.

Now, the issue on #6 is puzzling. I have all three followers broken and after more ivestigation, the forward intake follower on #7 is cracked in the exact same spot as the three on #6.

Here is a pic of the pistons on bank 2.


That is puzzling. Did the head gasket look good? What about the block, no cracks, etc? Bruce's theory on hydro-locking is possible, the only thing is you would expect that on #5 and #8 with those pistons being cleaned compared to #6 and #7. That's what my previous motor looked like when I broke the block and filled some cylinders with coolant. Maybe pressurize the cooling system (or apply vacuum) and see if there are any issues there.
 

Rasmus

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Okay got after this today, timing is spot on. I do have two bent intake valves on #4 from my rod breaking on the previous motor. I should have had it checked like I always do and I did not this time.

Now, the issue on #6 is puzzling. I have all three followers broken and after more ivestigation, the forward intake follower on #7 is cracked in the exact same spot as the three on #6.

Here is a pic of the pistons on bank 2.



Sorry to see this, Billy. If you need parts, I still have a bunch of new and old parts from my forged rebuild that I need to get rid of.
 

05stroker

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Sorry to see this, Billy. If you need parts, I still have a bunch of new and old parts from my forged rebuild that I need to get rid of.

Im picking up my Boss block snd RA from the Machine shop tomorrow and I have new FRPP followers and lash adjusters coming. Ford has changed the design since I last bought some. They have a little more meat where mine​ broke and the oil hole is smaller to keep more oil under the follower, I assume for the roller bearing.
 

Rasmus

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Im picking up my Boss block snd RA from the Machine shop tomorrow and I have new FRPP followers and lash adjusters coming. Ford has changed the design since I last bought some. They have a little more meat where mine​ broke and the oil hole is smaller to keep more oil under the follower, I assume for the roller bearing.

Those are the ones I got as well. I didn't have a follower or lash adjuster issue, but I figured 'why not'. I had broken other parts for less.
 

jodadejss06gt

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Billy and I spoke on these followers last night. I wonder if anyone has broken the new ones under normal operation without a timing event. I broke the exhaust follower, just like how billy's were broken, back in November and I wasn't even WOT. This week I was exiting a tunnel and shifted to 2nd to get into boost and hear the BOV and as soon as I let out clank clank clank. The car is sitting at JPC right now and I suspect another broken follower and it sounds like its coming from 5 again. I surely hope that is all it is and nothing else is messed up.
 

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