BBR Stage 1 Billet Cams

Ron

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Hello all,

Been searching and haven't seen too much new info on BBR stage 1 Cams. I have a line on a used set for a good price.

How are these for low rpm driveability and any gains? I would plan on having Lito do a tune.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!
 

ghunt81

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FWIW I have a whole sheet of specs I found somewhere a couple years ago when I was looking at cams.

BBR stage 1: 227/233 @ .050" duration, .480/.480, 114 LSA

In comparison:

Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 1: 214/227 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 114 LSA
Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 2: 222/235 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 115.5 LSA

Cushman Motorsports Stage 1 (these are what I have): 225/237 @ .050” duration, .472/.470, 112 LSA

They sound relatively similar to mine. Down low they don't feel much different from stock, but you can really feel them start to pull from 3000 RPM on up. That seems to be the case with most 3V cams though.

Also with the 114 LSA those will have a relatively mild idle.

As far as the info goes, one thing I've found is that if it isn't Hot Rod cams, Comp Stage 2's or Detroit Rockers, there's a good chance nobody has any data on them. I don't know of anyone ever doing a back-to-back cam dyno test on a 4.6. Would love to see it but it'd be very labor intensive.


 

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From looking at dyno numbers and ETs in peoples' sigs, I'm led to believe gains from NSR cams are in the tune. Same goes for driveability. Neither of that will be an issue with Lito doing the tune. Just make sure to decide whether you're keeping it NA or running boost, because that affects cam selection.

Btw how is the idle lope with the Cushman stage 1s, ghunt?
 
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ghunt81

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It's decent- seems to sound better on a cold start than it does when it's warmed up. Earlier this year I slapped on an axle back that was just resonators (with the catted shorty H pipe) and it sounded amazing but was unbearable to drive.

I didn't want a super huge lope like the Hot Rod's have and I think it's a decent compromise.

BTW- mine drives like stock above 1500 RPM, but it doesn't like creeping along at low low RPM's like I could do with the stock cams, which is not all that surprising.
 

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It's decent- seems to sound better on a cold start than it does when it's warmed up. Earlier this year I slapped on an axle back that was just resonators (with the catted shorty H pipe) and it sounded amazing but was unbearable to drive.

I didn't want a super huge lope like the Hot Rod's have and I think it's a decent compromise.

BTW- mine drives like stock above 1500 RPM, but it doesn't like creeping along at low low RPM's like I could do with the stock cams, which is not all that surprising
.
Same here. I have the hot rods and the car bucks and misfires if I try to accelerate from below 1500rpm. They lope pretty hard but it doesn't always shake the car or anything too violent. I think their advertised range is 1500-6500rpm. With longtubes + offroad x pipe and Magnapacks, I'm seeing 85db inside the car at interstate speeds according to my phone app based decibel meter (not sure how accurate). They're too loud for long drives so I have the stock axlebacks to go on if needed. But it just sounds too damn good.
 

Ron

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FWIW I have a whole sheet of specs I found somewhere a couple years ago when I was looking at cams.

BBR stage 1: 227/233 @ .050" duration, .480/.480, 114 LSA

In comparison:

Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 1: 214/227 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 114 LSA
Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 2: 222/235 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 115.5 LSA

Cushman Motorsports Stage 1 (these are what I have): 225/237 @ .050” duration, .472/.470, 112 LSA

They sound relatively similar to mine. Down low they don't feel much different from stock, but you can really feel them start to pull from 3000 RPM on up. That seems to be the case with most 3V cams though.

Also with the 114 LSA those will have a relatively mild idle.

As far as the info goes, one thing I've found is that if it isn't Hot Rod cams, Comp Stage 2's or Detroit Rockers, there's a good chance nobody has any data on them. I don't know of anyone ever doing a back-to-back cam dyno test on a 4.6. Would love to see it but it'd be very labor intensive.



Thanks for the specs on the cams!
 

Ron

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From looking at dyno numbers and ETs in peoples' sigs, I'm led to believe gains from NSR cams are in the tune. Same goes for driveability. Neither of that will be an issue with Lito doing the tune. Just make sure to decide whether you're keeping it NA or running boost, because that affects cam selection.

Btw how is the idle lope with the Cushman stage 1s, ghunt?

Thanks for the info! Also what tune are you using? Curious to know why you are having problems with bucking.
 
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ghunt81

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I think he was just saying he was getting bucking at very low RPM's- pretty much any aftermarket cam will do that, no tune can compensate for that.
 

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Thanks for the info! Also what tune are you using? Curious to know why you are having problems with bucking.

It's a custom tune from Bob Kurgan. Like ghunt said it's not bucking all the time. Only if I accelerate from below 1500rpm, which is a dumb thing to do even with stock cams. Just shift to a lower gear and wait longer in between shifts and problem solved.
 

Ron

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It's a custom tune from Bob Kurgan. Like ghunt said it's not bucking all the time. Only if I accelerate from below 1500rpm, which is a dumb thing to do even with stock cams. Just shift to a lower gear and wait longer in between shifts and problem solved.

Ok got it now. I took it as starting out in 1st and having an issue up to 1500 rpms. Also using my laptop now, I see your tune in your signature. Forgive me, I'm a dink! :insane:
 

1sloGT

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I think he was just saying he was getting bucking at very low RPM's- pretty much any aftermarket cam will do that, no tune can compensate for that.

That's what my first tuner said with my hot rods. I had a good buck right at 1400 rpm. Would get worse as Temps fell and when really cold anything below 2k was impossible, made worse with cold starts.

Drove it like that for a year. Then I got a Lito tune and his base tune got rid of it completely.
 

Ron

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That's what my first tuner said with my hot rods. I had a good buck right at 1400 rpm. Would get worse as Temps fell and when really cold anything below 2k was impossible, made worse with cold starts.

Drove it like that for a year. Then I got a Lito tune and his base tune got rid of it completely.

Good to know. Thanks for your input!
 

ghunt81

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Well, Lito fixed the bouncing idle I had after cams but I still get a little bucking if I'm not careful with the throttle. I just push in the clutch if that happens because it never gets better.

I have some cold start driveability issues (just the first minute or so on a dead cold start), but I think that's more due to the charge motion deletes since I've been experiencing that ever since I installed them.
 

Ron

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Well, Lito fixed the bouncing idle I had after cams but I still get a little bucking if I'm not careful with the throttle. I just push in the clutch if that happens because it never gets better.

I have some cold start driveability issues (just the first minute or so on a dead cold start), but I think that's more due to the charge motion deletes since I've been experiencing that ever since I installed them.

I wonder if the bucking is the removal of the charge motion plates?
 

46addict

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I have the motion deletes too and have cold start driveability quirks. Car feels like it's running on 4 cylinders if I try to accelerate harder than a granny. The problem goes away once the engine is no longer stone cold, but the low rpm bucking is still present if I lug the engine. It's all a consequence of messing with OEM designs I suppose.
 

ghunt81

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I have the motion deletes too and have cold start driveability quirks. Car feels like it's running on 4 cylinders if I try to accelerate harder than a granny. The problem goes away once the engine is no longer stone cold, but the low rpm bucking is still present if I lug the engine. It's all a consequence of messing with OEM designs I suppose.

Same here, good to know it's not just me. It bogs a bit at low RPM's, but again it goes away after maybe a minute of driving.

Also the bucking was worse with the charge motion plates, that's why I got rid of them. First gear cold start bucking was driving me insane.
 

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