First full track day - front end push!

Norm Peterson

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Kerry - Track Night in America is a NON-COMPETITIVE event primarily intended for fully street-legal cars and is an easy and relatively inexpensive way for people who have little or no track driving experience to be introduced to driving on a real track. The 'relatively inexpensive' part helps keep people like me (fully retired) coming back, and as it happens I'm getting things ready for a TNiA event this coming Thursday.

HPDE is not a race environment. Maybe closer to a brisk drive in the country as fast as you're comfortable going, minus things like oncoming traffic, stray pedestrians, utility poles at pavement edge, and speed enforcement.

The people who stick with it will eventually bump their preparation and the tuning of that prep upward (your option #3). But like most of us HPDE drivers, I doubt that RJ has a crew chief or a race engineer on speed-dial. Which leaves places like this to help figure out how to proceed.

Yes, RJ's car is modified . . . very lightly and less than many street driven only Mustangs. Yes, it's probably all wrong for racing in any of the series that you've done. But that doesn't make it unacceptable for HPDE. Just not as good or as fast as it could be, which kind of comes 'round to post #1.


Norm
 

fourdegrees11

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Switching your tires to a 285/40 setup, which is about as wide as you should run on your current wheels, could definitely get you some more traction.

(Check tirerack for a really good price on Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires in that size)
 

Norm Peterson

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I'll admit, I couldn't find the rate specs on the Sportlines, including on Eibach's website... If they are typical of the (lowering spring) genre, they'll be in the high-180's to low 200's and progressive in front, and with the rears running between 20 and 40 lb/in lower than the fronts. For comparison, the MM "Road And Track" spring set are 320-360 up front, and 260-380 rear, both progressive.
Sportlines have been reported as having 308 lb/in working rate front and 240 lb/in rear over on AllFordMustangs. "High rate reported" was listed elsewhere (no idea where).


Norm
 

Sky Render

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Switching your tires to a 285/40 setup, which is about as wide as you should run on your current wheels, could definitely get you some more traction.

(Check tirerack for a really good price on Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires in that size)

OMG NO. NO.

Those tires are absolute garbage. Just because a tire has a wide size and low treadwear doesn't mean it's a good tire. I ran those exact tires for a couple years, and I would have done better on the stock 235 all seasons. They are completely worthless to the point of being unsafe when they are cold, and when you do finally get them warmed up, they have almost nonexistent traction in the acceleration and braking direction. Coming out of a corner, I couldn't even touch the right pedal without breaking the rear end loose.

Goodyear Eagle F1 Tires are total and complete shit.
 
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fourdegrees11

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OMG NO. NO.

Those tires are absolute garbage. Just because a tire has a wide size and low treadwear doesn't mean it's a good tire. I ran those exact tires for a couple years, and I would have done better on the stock 235 all seasons. They are completely worthless to the point of being unsafe when they are cold, and when you do finally get them warmed up, they have almost nonexistent traction in the acceleration and braking direction. Coming out of a corner, I couldn't even touch the right pedal without breaking the rear end loose.

Goodyear Eagle F1 Tires are total and complete shit.


Well alright then I guess those tires are trash, no need to spaz out about it:asshat:
 

RJdude3

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It wouldn't matter what vehicle you had [Toyota, lotus, mustang] the same laws of physics apply.
Note even the lowly Lotus Cortina in Race trim was street driven.

The facts are: You have a modified vehicle, regardless of how other members here downplay that bit.
Your choices are:
1:Don't put it on the track because in it's present state of setup is unsuitable.
2: Back off the speed so the piss-poor setup doesn't affect the handling
3: Correct the Modifications that are already have, and set it up for what you want to do.

Go back to the people that sold you the spring kit and ask them what the stiffness of that spring kit is [lb/in]
They probably don't know, and just sold it off the shelf.

This is the corner carver section, so when you come on here asking what is wrong ,we will reply!
You are expecting a miracle from some generic street suspension kit that is probably not much better than a stock set-up.

The only redeemable thing about this thread is you were on the track and were driving at the limit of your cars handling, not on the street.
On the street you can never drive at 10 tenths [regardless of what bullshitters tell you]


Relax a little bit. At no point was I expecting my 12 year old daily driven mustang with off the shelf parts being able to run lap times with the brand new vettes and porsches that were in the intermediate group with us.

I also realize the best possible track setup is to strip all of the cars unnecessary weight, throw a set of full racing coil overs with full suspension mods, mount on a set of racing slicks while i trailer the car to the track, and most importantly, get as much seat time as possible and tighten the big nut behind the wheel lol.

I'm sorry if i offended you but my goal is to find the best balance on the car of track ability and street ability. Yes i know that's a tough goal, but that is why i am here asking others what parts they like on their mustangs that see occasion track time. I have a feeling that many other people here are also looking for the same.
 

Sky Render

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Well alright then I guess those tires are trash, no need to spaz out about it:asshat:

Welcome to S197 Forum. Don't take it personally; we give all the noobs shit, especially if they recommend crappy tires in the Corner Carvers' section. :roflmao:

You'll fit in here just fine if you have thick skin.
 

frank s

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Welcome to S197 Forum. Don't take it personally; we give all the noobs shit, especially if they recommend crappy tires in the Corner Carvers' section. :roflmao:

You'll fit in here just fine if you have thick skin.

Did I miss the point (again)?

Someone goes all wandering-womb about a perfectly ordinary tires recommendation, the suggester admonishes the hysteric with regard to his tone, and the flame-thrower shrugs it all off as par-for-the-course.

Maybe it was someone else who missed the point?

WRT the Goodyear Eagle F1 Super Car tires, they work just fine, although at a slightly lower absolute performance level, in practically all circumstances. I know. I used them a lot.

One of my favorite ideas about learning to drive at or near limits of vehicle and driver is to limit traction. Cars still act about the same in dynamic situations, just at lower actual speeds. Put your vehicle on the track with whatever modifications you might have, but on, like, skinny OEM tires. Get the same valuable dynamic experience with lesser danger (and cost).

For the OP: my street/track compromise was Ford Racing "P" springs, KONI yellow struts and shocks, H&R 26mm rear sway, Steeda adjustable front bar, GT500 wheels, the Goodyear tires, GT500 brakes.

The P springs lowered the car about an inch, and didn't destroy street comfort completely, with the KONIs at full soft. Front bar at the middle of three options, and "handling" was close to neutral at all points on the corner-entry through -exit path, easily modified by throttle management. I spent many happy, pleasurable hours on the street and on the track, with that setup. Didn't feel any need to upgrade or go faster in order to continue enjoying the car and my opportunities.

5121746399_39f80979ef_z.jpg


11245503114_29be2c0382_z.jpg
 

RJdude3

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For the OP: my street/track compromise was Ford Racing "P" springs, KONI yellow struts and shocks, H&R 26mm rear sway, Steeda adjustable front bar, GT500 wheels, the Goodyear tires, GT500 brakes.

The P springs lowered the car about an inch, and didn't destroy street comfort completely, with the KONIs at full soft. Front bar at the middle of three options, and "handling" was close to neutral at all points on the corner-entry through -exit path, easily modified by throttle management. I spent many happy, pleasurable hours on the street and on the track, with that setup. Didn't feel any need to upgrade or go faster in order to continue enjoying the car and my opportunities.

Thanks for the information. Were you running the 285/40 size mentioned earlier and I'm assuming a square setup?

Great looking pictures by the way, very nice and clean setup on the car.
 

Sky Render

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I knocked seconds off of my times switching from those Goodyears to Bridgestone RE-71R. That's good they worked OK for you, but I've never heard anyone else say anything good about them.
 

kerrynzl

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Tyres choice is like arguing over favourite beers.

I like Toyo Proxes RA1's as a DOT race tyre. They make a 275/35ZR18

RA1's need about 2.5 degrees negative camber [I've seen up to 5 degrees on soft sprung cars]

Stiffening the springs is OKish on the street [many race cars have been driven to the track]
but negative camber can make the car unpredictable on uneven roads
 
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GoinDrivin

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For my first TNIA event the plan is to run the 275/40/18 tires and 18x10 SVE Drifts I currently have on the car. Go have fun with it. As the addiction sets in and you start doing more events you'll end up going with a different wheel and tire combo. Good brakes and fluids, safe car, be smooth, and have a blast... Once you hit full commitment you can go crazy. And never think you need a ton of hp. You'll learn that the moment a Miata comes flying by. :)
 

RJdude3

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For my first TNIA event the plan is to run the 275/40/18 tires and 18x10 SVE Drifts I currently have on the car. Go have fun with it. As the addiction sets in and you start doing more events you'll end up going with a different wheel and tire combo. Good brakes and fluids, safe car, be smooth, and have a blast... Once you hit full commitment you can go crazy. And never think you need a ton of hp. You'll learn that the moment a Miata comes flying by. :)

Had a huge blast! I just wish there were more Seattle-area mustang owners in this section. The only S197 was a Boss 302 and then a couple S550's were at the track (as far as mustangs go) so i didnt really have anyone to bounce ideas off or compare lap times with.
 

frank s

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Thanks for the information. Were you running the 285/40 size mentioned earlier and I'm assuming a square setup?

Great looking pictures by the way, very nice and clean setup on the car.

"Yes", on the 285-40 square tires. I'd bought a GT500 takeoff set from Shelby, and replaced the 255- fronts.

Photos by Caliphotography. at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway, October, 2010. The car was very satisfying; gone but not forgotten.

5143967338_14824f2017_z.jpg
 

2008 V6

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Did I miss the point (again)?

One of my favorite ideas about learning to drive at or near limits of vehicle and driver is to limit traction. Cars still act about the same in dynamic situations, just at lower actual speeds. Put your vehicle on the track with whatever modifications you might have, but on, like, skinny OEM tires. Get the same valuable dynamic experience with lesser danger (and cost).

Best advise so far for any beginner or intermediate driver -
Learning to drive at the limit at a much lower speed.
Cheaper consumables / tires & less body damage when you make a mistake.
 

TheViking

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I was running Goodyear Supercar G2 takeoffs from later model GT500's for a while. Considering I was usually paying about $150 each for what were basically new tires didn't hurt. But while they were pretty horrible on the street I was surprised how well they worked out on track. Warm and tracks anyway. IMO, they had good levels of grip for a street tire and decent feedback.
 
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