2007 V6 S197 vs a SN95 GT (02-04) for HPDE

Looking at getting a track car , I know the mustang is probably not one of the better platforms to get out there on the cheap , but hey I like them .

Each car is in the $4-5K range , which would you go for and why for HPDE ?

Goals are (other then stay on the track and be safe) to advance to intermediate group , and have fun.

Miata.

SoundGuyDave said:

Miata.

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Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer


Yes , e36 or Miata are also in the mix .

Honestly out of those two... Miata. Dead serious.

It'll be cheaper to run, and it will lose little if any value so you can sell it and buy what you want later when you're more experienced and informed.

ANGST said:

Looking at getting a track car , I know the mustang is probably not one of the better platforms to get out there on the cheap , but hey I like them .

Each car is in the $4-5K range , which would you go for and why for HPDE ?

Goals are (other then stay on the track and be safe) to advance to intermediate group , and have fun.

Click to expand...

Make an offer on this POS , and spend a few $$$ on the handling dept


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Ford-M...ash=item1c93e3780f:g:UIwAAOSwS51ZjMUd&vxp=mtr

kerrynzl said:

Make an offer on this POS , and spend a few $$$ on the handling dept


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-Ford-M...ash=item1c93e3780f:g:UIwAAOSwS51ZjMUd&vxp=mtr

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The list of mod$ is a mile long. Loads of pix on there too. IF you could get
it for a 1/2 decent price, and the eng held together, you could probably get ur money out of it down the road.

The S197 is much better handling, better chassis.
I would say "not a V6". I've run mine with the 6 at an HPDE. It felt very slow. Swapping the 6 out to a 5.0 shaved 17 seconds off my lap times. With the stock suspension on the S197, I run about the same laps as my heavily modded fox. (HP is about the same on the 2 cars)

Miata over the S197
S197 over either of the other two (different reasons)


The hotrodder in me might think about dropping a newer V6 with a 6-speed into the Miata . . .


Norm

My 03 GT new edge/sn95 with 01 Bullitt mustang springs with 03 cobra wheels and tires it handles on the street very simular to my 2013 GT with brembo brake strut and shocks, boss 302 springs. That doesn't really give you much confidence saying one is better than the other. My dad has a 09 Aston Martin Vantage. You really don't know how bad the mustang are in curves till you drive a car designed to do that.

Not sure mustang is a good platform for what you want, if just for fun then doesn't matter. But if doing it for competition maybe look at another platform/ car.

Again, Miata. But if you really want to track a Mustang (and I get it), the S197 is light-years better that the SN95. I had a '97 Cobra with pretty much the entire MM catalog on it, and it handled nowhere near as well as my '08 GT. The design of the newer platform is that much better.

Having spent time in all the cars listed above -Miata.

Miata - Cheaper on consumables, better learner car, Used ones cheap.
S195 - Stock - Snap over steer, heavy, not much HP, hard on consumables.
S197 - Stock - Heavy boat that will ride on the bump stops using decent tires, hard on consumables, V8 too much HP for a learner car.

I have a V6 S197 I bought for a learner car & Daily driver for the wife - She needed 4 seats or I would have bought a Miata.

I also have a 1993 - S195 that the owner spent well over $60,000 to make it go faster & handle. It does and I got it for pennies - pennies on the dollar. He also brought home several sets of free tires running in TTS when it was a class. A well balanced car but not a Miata with Half that much in it.

I understand wanting a mustang, and i understand wanting cheap, but If that is your budget you need a miata. I had an 01 miata and the thing was a blast.

Another way to look at it is power to weight. As slow as a miata is, it (NB at least) has a better power to weight ratio than the 4.0 v6 ... let that sink in.

After tracking a 5.0 and an NB, i'm actually looking to pick up a 3v as my next recreational track car. I think the slightly lower weight and slightly lower power will play nicer with my wallet since my wife and i both track, but will still offer enough oomph to be fun. I just dont see a 4.0 as being "fun." Has nothing to do with it being a v6, my wife's 3.7 is a riot, but 210 hp in a 3400 lb car is too low any way you cut it.

Voltwings said:

I understand wanting a mustang, and i understand wanting cheap, but If that is your budget you need a miata. I had an 01 miata and the thing was a blast.

Another way to look at it is power to weight. As slow as a miata is, it (NB at least) has a better power to weight ratio than the 4.0 v6 ... let that sink in.

After tracking a 5.0 and an NB, i'm actually looking to pick up a 3v as my next recreational track car. I think the slightly lower weight and slightly lower power will play nicer with my wallet since my wife and i both track, but will still offer enough oomph to be fun. I just dont see a 4.0 as being "fun." Has nothing to do with it being a v6, my wife's 3.7 is a riot, but 210 hp in a 3400 lb car is too low any way you cut it.

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That's 210 crank hp = aprx 184 rwhp. The hp to weight ratio is through the floor. Those old V6's were cast iron.

I love the first gen Miata. Would love to own one. Wayyyyyyy back in ye' olden times I sat in a 1st gen Miata. They are tiny. I had trouble climbing out. I'm 6 foot tall and almost 50 pounds heavier now. So I will probably never own a Miata, but I like them a lot.

I would like either a red one with black interior & top or a green one with a brown interior & top.

Monster miata. Stuff a V8 in there.

I'd like to have my 1966 Lotus Elan back. The Miata designers bought a similar one, took it apart to the frame, and put it back together with modern technology and metallurgy. Voilà! Mazda MX-5 Miata! My daughter and son-in-law have been through a few of them, but the only one they've kept is (I think) a 1990 model that they still autocross from time to time.

The thing about starting track experience with a Miata is that there are so many of them partially- or fully-set-up, always plenty for sale, such a universe of technical knowledge and expertise available, that after a small (relatively) investment of dollars and energy, you can always find someone running at about the same speed to race with. Marvelous stuff.

Lotus starts at about 00:56; 1972 or so. Photo is from the first-place trophy/plaque won at a high-speed slalom at Holtville Aerodrome International Raceway, 1972.

Interested to see what direction you go. I currently own an '05 GT. The decision has been made to put together a track car. The plan at the moment is to just have a safe, fun track car. I'm just debating on having fun w/ the Stang or picking up a '99 Miata and going with that. Of course, the last time I did this I took my 2nd Gen RX-7 street car and the next thing you know I had a full blown SCCA ITS car. haha! Always remember, if you're going to build a serious car, start with one someone else built. Otherwise, get something you're comfortable in and drive and enjoy it!

You can have fun in just about ANY car when starting HPDEs.

I've seen a guy bring a rental car (Intrepid) and beat the crap out of it for the 2 day event.

Some of the instructors run some basic stuff, (Focus, Mystique, MR2, etc)

These events should be about having a good time and learning. There will ALWAYS be someone on track faster than you.......for a while anyway. LOL

Pentalab said:

That's 210 crank hp = aprx 184 rwhp. The hp to weight ratio is through the floor. Those old V6's were cast iron.

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+/- 190RWHP stock, 3325LBs without trunk junk, rear seat, miss SHT removed & basic suspension upgrades.
When I drove it, it was as quick as a basic modded Miata on a short course track - LOL

To me the biggest thing to focus on in HPDE (besides the general fun factor, of course!) is pure driver development. A Miata is easier on consumables: a set of slicks runs about 1/3 of what it costs to put new shoes on a Mustang, and don't even get me started on brake pads and rotors! It's RWD, so all the chassis-dynamics lessons you learn port right over to a Mustang, Corvette, Viper, Daytona Prototype, LMP-1, whatever. They're cheap to buy, cheap to run, and there's a ready market if/when you're ready to step up. I have never raced Spec Miata, but I have raced 944SPEC, which is reasonably similar, and driving in a gaggle of essentially identical cars is a blast. Things just happen a little slower on the straights, but the corners are just as fast, if not faster than in any of the high-power machines. If you want to LEARN, then the Miata is the gold standard. Everything you learn about maintaining momentum through the corner applies 100% to every other car out there.