Post your R.V., vacation house, cabin

slow06stang

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So our cabin has come to the point of demo after 13 years of no upkeep. Now that my son is old enough to enjoy the lakes and boat and atv, I want to get something to spend the weekend down there instead of the day. I have been thinking and looking at travel trailers for now and build something else later when I get time. Or throw a mobile home on the land and call it done. We have 2 wells and a septic system so I do not have to worry about that. I thought maybe some pictures of your guy's R.V., vacation house, or cabin would help. If this is in the wrong section feel free to move it. Thanks in advance.
 

tjm73

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My wife and I bought a 25 foot travel trailer last fall to take the kids camping. It would give you flexibility to go to the lake or someplace else camping.
 

slow06stang

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My wife and I bought a 25 foot travel trailer last fall to take the kids camping. It would give you flexibility to go to the lake or someplace else camping.


This was the reason the wife and I really liked the R.V. idea. Do you have any specific options you would recommend? I have been looking at bunkhouses with an outside kitchen.
 

tjm73

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We went kinda old school in our choice. No slide out to break or cause problems or add weight. Ours is a bunkhouse with a separate master suite.

I will say this, be careful about what your camper weighs and what your truck can tow. I recently figured out my camper is running about 96-98% of making me over loaded.
 

Fosters

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One on the left with the dually. I need to get a bigger trailer, the truck is bigger/heavier than the trailer now... lol.
 

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tjm73

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Here's a picture I found of my Trail Runner 25BH the day I brought it home a year ago September. Fully loaded and ready to roll I am almost at my towing capacity on the real axle of my truck.

I highly, highly, highly recommend you read about and understand what GVWR, GCVW and RAWR are (if you don't already). You don't want to exceed any of them. Two guys I know have newer F150's than I have and they have campers that are bigger than mine and I am 100% sure they are both towing over their limits. Opens you up to major liability in a crash IMO. If they were to crash their insurance would not cover them because they are over the limit. Think about all the bad that could come from just the lawsuits. Plus no repair/replace for the truck or camper. Huge financial implications.

I've been writing a little tutorial on GVWR, GCVW and RAWR. When I have it finished, I'll post it here.

u2fc3.jpg
 
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tjm73

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Recently, I decided to learn about towing terms so I would know what I was doing. After towing a half dozen times I began to feel I was allowing myself to remain ignorant. Hauling at least 10,000 pounds down the road at 70 mph should give you pause to think about the responsibility you have to know you are doing it right and safe. For me it was the realization that my wife, 5 year daughter and 3 year old son where in the truck with me. I could never forgive myself if they got hurt because of my wanton ignorance or neglect. Here is what I discovered and learned.

Ford defines base curb weight as the weight of a vehicle with all standard equipment plus all fluids at capacity and a full tank of fuel. It does not include any optional items, passengers or cargo. For example if A/C is not standard, the A/C system weight is not included in the base curb weight if you have that option. Neither was that fancy leather interior with dual power seats.

Passengers are, well, passengers. Pretty self explanatory.

Cargo weight, as the name implies, are all items you carry in or on a vehicle that are not passengers. Think of anything added to your truck as cargo. Brush guards, bed cap, etc add weight and reduce capacity.

The maximum combined passenger and cargo weight is called Payload. Can you see why payload capacity statements are misleading to the uninformed yet? Your truck is billed as having 1200 pounds payload capacity. Now your buddy is with you and you two add up to 500 pounds. You also have some stuff added to your truck like a brush guard and your hitch in in the receiver. They add up to 125 pounds. 1200 - 500 - 125 = your real payload capacity on that trip of 575 pounds. 575 is a lot less than 1200.

GVWR, GVW GAWR, GAW, GCWR, GCW

These are six acronyms for six important pieces of information all related to weight. They are similar in name, but are individually important. Three of them are ratings and three of them are actual real world weights that will vary with every trip. As a result, some confusion is to be expected until or unless you understand them and what they mean.

As a driver towing a trailer or carrying a load you must be mindful of these terms as there are three weights that must never, ever, be exceeded. Exceeding these weight limits puts you, your passengers and every other driver on the road at risk of property loss and/or damage, injury or death. And the responsibility to be under the limit is solely on the driver's shoulders. You can, and should, expect your insurance company to say you're on your own if you are over the limit and have an accident.

GVWR is your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. This is the maximum weight your pickup can weigh with all it's passengers and cargo in and/or on it. If you are towing a trailer, the trailer will also have its own GVWR. You should know it as well.

GVW is your Gross Vehicle Weight. This is the actual weight of your vehicle at any given time. This weight must NEVER exceed the GVRW. If a trailer is attached the weight of the hitch and the tongue weight must be added with your tow vehicles weight. For example, if your truck weights 6000 pounds and you hitch and tongue weight total 550 pounds, your truck now weights 6550 pounds.

GAWR is your Gross Axle Weight Rating. Ever pickup has a front axle and a rear axle and each is rated separately. It is the total amount of weight that a given axle is rated to carry.

GAW is your Gross Axle Weight. This is the actual weight carried by a given axle at any given time. The load carried on any single axle must NEVER exceed that specific axles GAWR. If a trailer is attached the weight of the hitch and the tongue weight must be included on the rear axle. For example, the truck above carries 40% of it's weight (2400 lbs) on the rear axle. The rear axle is rated to say 3500 pounds. Now add the 550 hitch/tongue weight, the weight of passengers (let's say 500 pounds) and a bunch of stuff you are carrying in the bed (say 200 pounds). So 2400 + 550 + 500 + 200 = 3560. Getting close.

GCWR is your Gross Combined Weight Rating. This is the maximum weight of your pickup added to the maximum weight of your trailer including all cargo and passengers. If you add the truck GVRW and the trailer GVWR and they add up to more than the GCWR, then the truck and trailer combo is a poor match.

GCW is your Gross Combined Weight. This is the actual total weight of your pickup with the trailer loaded and attached. The GCW must NEVER exceed the GCWR.

The last piece of the puzzle that must be observed is the maximum loaded trailer weight limit for your tow vehicle. Do not exceed this limit either. You can find this in the tow vehicle manufacturers towing guide, the owners manual or can be obtained from the manufacturer or from their representatives.

These weight ratings are often a little difficult to source. They are rarely all in one place. The best place to find your GCWR and GAWR is in the drivers door jamb of any vehicle rated to tow. You will find a safety certification label with the GCWR and the GAWR split out for the front and rear axles. A word of caution on these two ratings. Getting these numbers from a book may give you incorrect numbers for the vehicle you have or are looking at. The sticker in the jamb should be the details for that trucks configuration. The GCWR is also usually found in a tow vehicle manufacturers towing guide, the owners manual or can be obtained from the manufacturer or their representatives.

The actual weights are easy to measure if you have access to scales and this is the preferred method, but you can get pretty close with honest and realistic estimations of your weights above and beyond the base curb weight of a vehicle. You should be able to get close enough to safely assess if the truck you have or are looking to buy is enough tow vehicle for what you are going to tow.

Source: Some of the above is sourced from the 2011 Ford Towing Guide.
 

slow06stang

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My maximum loaded trailer weight is 12,500lbs for a hitch pull trailer and it is higher for a fifth wheel. Would that mean that just the trailer I was pulling could be up to 12,500lbs depending on what plates I have on my truck? I only have BL 12,000. Do you guys have the stabilizer bars? If so do they do anything? Thanks.
 

tjm73

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I have a weight distributing hitch which is also a sway control system. At a certain point you have to have them or your load could get uncontrollable. I've had my setup wiggle a few times in high winds at just 60 mph or so and it was unnerving. I can only imagine what it would be like with out sway control.

What is your truck? Year? I ask because if I look in the 2007 Ford Towing Guide for my truck it says I can tow a trailer weighing up to 8500 pounds. But if I put that trailer weight into the capacity calculator I made, I am over loaded on all three measures. Too heavy on the rear axle. Too heavy on the truck. Too heavy on the combined on the truck and trailer weight. There is no way I can tow that load safely.

I've come to the conclusion that advertised tow ratings are pretty much bullshit. There are too many contributing factors to make a blanket statement that you can tow X amount of weight for F150's or what ever truck you are talking about.
 

slow06stang

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I can not decide on new or used, but here is the description of the one I have been most interested in.

2013 Zinger, by Crossroads.
It measures 33ft, not including
the tongue.
It has 2 power slide outs.
Sleeps 9. It has a queen bed in
the front room, a couch that folds
into a bed, a dinette that
converts into a bed, a couch in
the rear bedroom with a fold up
bunk above it and another single
bunk across from that.
Weighs 7900LBS empty.
It has an outside kitchen, ducted
a/c and heat, microwave,
stove/oven, stereo, gas/electric
fridge and water heater.
Everything has been tested.
Roof has been checked over.
Has a power awning.
This comes with a 30 day
warranty on all appliances and
water system.
 

tjm73

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I finished my Excel spreadsheet towing capacity calculator today. I'll work up you truck & camper. Stay tuned.....
 

tjm73

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Some info specific to 2004 towing and the camper your looking at.

2004 Towing Guide
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/2004_All.pdf

Curb weights and axle ratings and such stuff
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2004/vs_pdf/fseriessd_04abb.pdf

RV specs
http://www.rvguide.com/specs/crossroads/travel-trailer/2013/zinger/zt33bh.html

Making some realistic assumptions on passenger and cargo weight that combo looks good but you are going to want to watch how much you load on the weight distributing hitch.

Also the camper weighs more than 7900 pounds. The dry weight is listed at 8455 pounds in the link above.
 
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slow06stang

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Holy smokes thanks for all of the info. I'm glad to see you are on top of safety. Most people never think about the weights they should and should not pull. It looked like the cargo weight capacity of the trailer would put it a little over 11k. Thanks again.
 

tjm73

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Yeah I started questing my truck and camper combo and started to educate myself. I learned a ton and safety is too important to ignore it.

If we had bought a camper with a slide out, I would be over weigh in more than one way. I wish people would consider this stuff before buying. I know two brothers that are running over weight because they didn't learn before the bought. Well, one is definitely over the other is most likely over.
 
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Fosters

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Just as a side note, you guys would get a kick out of the campers they pull in Europe, and what they pull them with...

I would love it if they built that highway over the Bering strait... I'd get the biggest 44 footer my truck can handle and go to Europe to see how many towns I can block traffic in :D
 

Fosters

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GAWR is your Gross Axle Weight Rating. Ever pickup has a front axle and a rear axle and each is rated separately. It is the total amount of weight that a given axle is rated to carry.

GAW is your Gross Axle Weight. This is the actual weight carried by a given axle at any given time. The load carried on any single axle must NEVER exceed that specific axles GAWR. If a trailer is attached the weight of the hitch and the tongue weight must be included on the rear axle. For example, the truck above carries 40% of it's weight (2400 lbs) on the rear axle. The rear axle is rated to say 3500 pounds. Now add the 550 hitch/tongue weight, the weight of passengers (let's say 500 pounds) and a bunch of stuff you are carrying in the bed (say 200 pounds). So 2400 + 550 + 500 + 200 = 3560. Getting close.

This part is a bit tricky, you can't add 100% of the tongue weight straight to the rear axle weight, especially if you have a weight distributing setup. Some of the weight the trailer puts on the hitch will go to the front as well - and same goes for the passengers and junk in the trunk; it will not all go to the rear axle.

The numbers are there to give you a guideline, I'd never tow with a vehicle at close to it's max ratings, even if the engineers are pretty liberal with how these things are built (or overbuilt), but its best to use that guideline to figure out how close you are (and make sure you're not over) and then hitch up and head to a weigh station that can give you the individual weight for each axle of the truck and the trailer.

That takes out the guess-work, you know whether you are over on either axle, and you can add them all together to know if you're over on combined weight...
 

tjm73

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You're absolutely right about the weight distribution but the assumptions I made error to the safety side. Assuming all weight to the rear axle errors toward being over weight which should drive decisions to reduce that load. Which ultimately should drive the whole thing toward safety.
 

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