Jodadej's Engine Build Thread

History:
Its been a long time in the making and many years later but now is the time to build up the power plant. I’ve been running high 400’s for a few years and 40k miles. I’ve managed to get the car into the 10’s on the stock short block/stock heads. And now the car has 84k miles on it.

Goals:
700-800 on corn….basically whatever is enough to get me into the 9’s with ease
Street duty will be on low boost pump at 550-650
Start Tearing it down in the next 2 weeks

Current setup that will remain:
Power House Turbo Kit(minus turbo)
ID1000’s
QTP cutout on downpipe
Delete Plates
Magnum XL Trans 2.66-1st gear .50-6th
3.55 Rear(most likely)
Eaton True Trac
Billet LCAs
Koni Str.t
Steeda Ultra Lite Springs
Front Sway Bar Delete

Plans:
I would like opinions and advice from those of you that have done builds or are going through them.

Turbo- Comp billet wheel 67 or 70 –Jeremy is hooking me up with a quote on a few different options here

Fuel- getting rid of my twin gt500 setup and going full return for better drivability. I like the way the FORE system is setup and will most likely end up with twin 465’s for e85 compatibility.

Shortblock- I’m sourcing the build to Lloyd at Springfield Machine. He’s built a bunch of blocks for Mike Rousch. Many of those engines have seen some hard running with great results. Retfr8flyr(Earl) had his block built by Lloyd and speaks nothing but good things. My conversation with the builder has yielded the following:
Kellogg stock stroke crank
H-beams with Arp 2000 bolts
Manley Pistons(stock CR)

I don’t know much about the rest so I won’t pretend I do. I was just going to let him do his thing there.
I really want a bump in CR and am looking at a few different piston options from Mod Max. My tuner suggested keeping it in the mid 10 range. Options currently are Wiseco 6cc 10.3:1(coated skirts), Cp/Mod Max Flats 10.66:1, and Manley 6.5cc 9.8:1(coated but stock cr). If I get the cheaper CNC heads from FRPP then I will lose a little bit from any of the previous compression due to the larger combustion chamber if I am correct.

Heads- I’m most uncertain here.

Option 1 - I feel like the price of the cheaper FRPP heads at 1670 for the set from Tasca is a no brainer only because I don’t know how much work will need to be done on my stock heads. I’d also most likely purchase Comp Springs(not sure,but Seems like the 26113 would be sufficient) and possibly the steel retainers if needed. Can someone answer this? Next I’m looking at Livernois Stage 2 Turbo Cams, and then I’d finish it off with new FR Rocker Arms and Lash adjusters.

Option 2 – Have Lloyd clean up my heads and do any necessary work on them needed and then assembly with the previously mentioned items above
ARP Head Studs

5.8L Oil pump with TSS gears
I’m also going to have to get a 8 bolt flywheel – haven’t thought too much about that.
Upgraded meter needed? BA-5000?

What else am I missing?

Pics:

Transporting to Engine Builder

FORE Stage 2 Fuel System, AEM 320 Primary, Walbro 465 secondary

99 Cobra Crank

FRPP Valve Covers

TSS Billet 3V gears for 5.8 Pump

Compression is usually different than what's advertised. Use this and figure 3.572 for the bore, .008" for the deck height, and .031" for the head gasket thickness. All of the frpp head gaskets I've had measured at .031" compressed thickness.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

It sounds like you have a good plan in place.

Edit: I'm running the frpp cnc heads with 26113 springs. Rev past 7k without issues. Also running a modified version of the Livernois stage 3 blower cams (comp 127500 with 113 lsa and a 108 icl).

What are the specs on the cams you are thinking about? If they are close to the 127350 I'd look for something else.

BruceH said:

Compression is usually different than what's advertised. Use this and figure 3.572 for the bore, .008" for the deck height, and .031" for the head gasket thickness. All of the frpp head gaskets I've had measured at .031" compressed thickness.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

It sounds like you have a good plan in place.

Edit: I'm running the frpp cnc heads with 26113 springs. Rev past 7k without issues. Also running a modified version of the Livernois stage 3 blower cams (comp 127500 with 113 lsa and a 108 icl).

What are the specs on the cams you are thinking about? If they are close to the 127350 I'd look for something else.

Click to expand...

Livernois stage 2 turbo cams are the 127400 lobes on a 114 LSA

As for the turbo, I had a similar conversation with Mike from Powerhouse and he suggested for more than 15 lbs, step up to a 72-76mm wheel. I want to keep it somewhere in the 15lb neighborhood so I am just going to step up to a 0.96 A/R housing.

...And some cast vs billet compressor wheel reading.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced Engine Tuning/Billet vs Cast Wheels.html

Bruce,
Intake 221
Exhaust 228
LSA 114

After using that calculator with the larger chamber head volume of the FRPP CNC heads the Wiseco Flat Tops look like they may be in a sweet spot of around 10.7. Anyone care to confirm? That would be a much better choice IMO.

RED09GT said:

...And some cast vs billet compressor wheel reading.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Billet%20vs%20Cast%20Wheels.html

Click to expand...

That is an interesting read. I currently have a 67 and I'm pretty sure that I already have a .96 A/R housing. I just don't want to get this thing put together on the dyno and run that turbo and find out that its out of steam at 650 so I need to get something larger.

I would skip the CNC heads and cams. That money is better spent some where else. As far as springs go the Trickflow springs are the best bang for buck and according to the spring thread in 4.6 tech they are identical to the Livernois springs. Since that is the case I will be running mine with limiters to keep VCT. Sending you a PM on some fuel stuff.

Nice! Subb'd

Good choice with Lloyd for the build. Talk to him about your head work, I wanted him to do a full port job on mine and he recommended against it.. He has done head work for some of the bigger names and he recommended that, unless I was trying to get the absolute max from the engine, the 3v heads flow so well that just a little chamber work and some work on the short turn radius was all that I needed. That is what I did on mine, the cost was very reasonable and I have been happy with the results.

I am running the Livernois springs and Custom cams from Comp that are almost the same as the Livernois stage 3 turbo cams. Looking forward to seeing your results. Do you think you will have it done for the track rental?


Earl

He's going to OC

Weou09 said:

As far as springs go the Trickflow springs are the best bang for buck and according to the spring thread in 4.6 tech they are identical to the Livernois springs.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I'll look into that a little more.

retfr8flyr said:

just a little chamber work and some work on the short turn radius was all that I needed. That is what I did on mine, the cost was very reasonable and I have been happy with the results.
Do you think you will have it done for the track rental?

Earl

Click to expand...

Earl,
That is exactly what he mentioned to me as well. I'm wondering how much that opens the combustion chamber? If you have an idea of exactly what the head work cost you, I would love for you to share with me. I just ASSUMED that the work would cost the better part of 1200 or so and I figured I might as well spend the extra 400 on new heads.

As far as the rental, if you are talking about Ben's in April maybe, but if you are talking about the May one....then I will be in OC for the car show/cruising.

Edit: don't be sour Cam....go to Bens rental in April and come to OC in may!

I'll be in Charlotte for the 50th

Does Lloyd work on 5.4's as well? Looking to beef up the block later on but nothing overkill and he seems relatively close.

Lloyd can do any engine and has made some killer 5.4L engines. Jason sent you a PM.


Earl

Sounds like a sweet build man

jodadejss06gt said:

Bruce,
Intake 221
Exhaust 228
LSA 114

After using that calculator with the larger chamber head volume of the FRPP CNC heads the Wiseco Flat Tops look like they may be in a sweet spot of around 10.7. Anyone care to confirm? That would be a much better choice IMO.





That is an interesting read. I currently have a 67 and I'm pretty sure that I already have a .96 A/R housing. I just don't want to get this thing put together on the dyno and run that turbo and find out that its out of steam at 650 so I need to get something larger.

Click to expand...

I was at 10.76 with 3.581 Mahle flat tops and the cnc heads. That combo with 127400 cams, a D1SC making 19psi, E85, and factory cats made 699rwhp. I'd imagine that a turbo would be making considerably more hp at that level.

RED09GT said:

As for the turbo, I had a similar conversation with Mike from Powerhouse and he suggested for more than 15 lbs, step up to a 72-76mm wheel. I want to keep it somewhere in the 15lb neighborhood so I am just going to step up to a 0.96 A/R housing.

...And some cast vs billet compressor wheel reading.
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/Billet%20vs%20Cast%20Wheels.html

Click to expand...

It is true that simpley making the same wheel out of billet vice cast will have no change other than inertia due to being lighter. The fact is that companies not only went to billet wheels, they redesigned the wheel to take advantage of the lighter stronger material, so its a new compressor design that makes a huge difference not so much the billet material.

My results and a comparision of the two wheel design differences and why it moves more air, has better transient repsonse and faster spool.

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46843&highlight=billet+wheel+results

Jason are the 1000's going to be enough for 700-800 on corn? I may be finding out the answer to that one. lol

As for maf I would go with an hpx or hpx-e depending on piping size the maf is in.

My heads are staying stock but I had Mark at Bullet Racing Cams spec me out a custom turbo grind for my setup. He takes into account everything, he asked me for a ton of information, from trans, gearing, car weight, engine info etc. and the price was shockingly reasonable.

My specs off the top of my head 228/232 duration @ .050, .525/.550 lift, 110 centerline with 115.5 lsa and going to retain vct with them with comp limiters.

Good luck Jason, Lloyd put my motor together as well.

Jeremy I will be able to just bump the base pressure by going return if there is an issue. I'm fairly certain that conversations with Kevin McD from JPC, let me to believe that ~800 would be capable through the id's on corn.

I'm leaning toward the HPX-E currently just because I don't think the regular one will have enough resolution if I really push the car.

Those cam spec seem to be in between the Livernois Stage 2 and 3 turbo cams with another 1.5* of LSA. I'm wondering why the extra 1.5*?

1000s will be plenty for 7-800 on corn with enough pump and return.

Jason, my cam specs are very similar

229/236 @.050
.535/.550 Lift
102 intake centerline
116 LSA

I am very happy with these cams and they are hardly noticeable at idle.


Earl