Upgrading from 6 pt bar to 8.50 cage

I currently have a Wolfe Racecraft 6 pt 4130 chromoly bolt in roll bar that's powder coated gloss black and I love it. The issue is I need an 8.50 certified chassis to be able to make all out 1/4 mile passes at the track. Wolfe sells a "front half kit" that comes with new side bars, the halo bar, rockers, etc. everything needed to convert to a 8.50 cage so I called them today and the guy there was very helpful, he suggested a better route would be to simply sell my current bolt in bar and order a whole new 8.50 cage kit from them. This is for many reasons including the fact that the rear bars currently bolt to the main hoop, which is not NHRA legal, and he said he's not 100% sure but he doesn't think it would be as simple as welding the joint to make them comply so I would have to replace them too. There is also the fact that the whole new cage kit would be the same i.e. you cannot powder coat just the front pieces then weld to the existing bar, it would never match, also the cage kit can be all 1.625" bars and I currently have all 1.750" bars so, also the net cost would be about the same (around $650 out of pocket total). I'm thinking that's not a bad idea, what do you all think? I would do all the work myself either way, and would order the kit all pre- jig-notched and ready to TIG weld in so the cost of labor is not an issue.

I would start fresh if it doesn't bother you that much. Nothing is worse than a janky cage. We went through something similar on my boss' car, he's glad he started fresh with an 8pt instead of trying to update the 4pt. Less work in the long run. And btw, let me know if you do sell the 6pt.

Wolfe makes great stuff. Seems to be the safest route for your car

Speedboosted said:

I would start fresh if it doesn't bother you that much. Nothing is worse than a janky cage. We went through something similar on my boss' car, he's glad he started fresh with an 8pt instead of trying to update the 4pt. Less work in the long run. And btw, let me know if you do sell the 6pt.

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86GT351 said:

Wolfe makes great stuff. Seems to be the safest route for your car

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Thanks, I'll probably end up going that route.. it does make the most sense.

I agree with selling what you currently have and get a 8.50 cage kit.

Are you wanting to keep your back seat ?

I agree with starting fresh. You have the like tubing which the NHRA official will like. Your in Division 2 correct? You should talk to the rep. who is going to certify your car, some times they like to see the cage before you paint it.

83-88T-Bird Guy said:

I agree with selling what you currently have and get a 8.50 cage kit.

Are you wanting to keep your back seat ?

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No I don't care about the back seat anymore, it will be completely useless for passengers including my 10 year old son after the new cage is installed. Now, with the 6 pt, he can at least sit back there, but the 8.50 cage has those bars that come down from the main hoop to the trans tunnel.

travelers said:

I agree with starting fresh. You have the like tubing which the NHRA official will like. Your in Division 2 correct? You should talk to the rep. who is going to certify your car, some times they like to see the cage before you paint it.

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Yes, Division #2 southeast, and that's a great idea, I didn't even think of that.

Okay the new 4130 cage is officially ordered! Now I'm planning my attack on the install, anyone who has done a cage how did you weld the upper bars, remove the windshield or drop the cage through the floor via hole saw openings? Either way I don't see an easy way to access the rear bars that run over the back seat into the trunk to weld them to the main hoop, neither method above will improve access in that area much. Other than those two connections I think have have the rest figured out. All suggestions welcome!

$650 for an 8.50 with it being jig notched? What was your total "out the door" if I may ask. I have been considering one myself

swflastang05 said:

Okay the new 4130 cage is officially ordered! Now I'm planning my attack on the install, anyone who has done a cage how did you weld the upper bars, remove the windshield or drop the cage through the floor via hole saw openings? Either way I don't see an easy way to access the rear bars that run over the back seat into the trunk to weld them to the main hoop, neither method above will improve access in that area much. Other than those two connections I think have have the rest figured out. All suggestions welcome!

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I haven't done one but I do know when the 'Cuda was done they took the roof off and then tiged it back on. It has a full tube chasse so with the back window and roof off there was plenty of access.

JoshK said:

$650 for an 8.50 with it being jig notched? What was your total "out the door" if I may ask. I have been considering one myself

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It's actually $685 for the cage then another $400 for the jig notch work, plus shipping, and they had a 15% off sale for Christmas so my total shipped to my door was $1084. Still not bad IMO, especially since I'll end up selling my 6 pt bolt in for probably around $600. The $650 mentioned above is my "net" price after selling my current 6pt bar, but it should actually be closer to $500 after all the dust settles, hopefully.

travelers said:

I haven't done one but I do know when the 'Cuda was done they took the roof off and then tiged it back on. It has a full tube chasse so with the back window and roof off there was plenty of access.

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Okay well I know I won't be cutting my roof off lol! I'm sure that would allow plenty of access and all, but I'll figure something else out!

In all seriousness I'm going to try the holes through the floor thing, hopefully that will give me enough clearance to reach all the way around the upper tubes to TIG them all together, if not I'll have to pop the windshield out. I've never removed a windshield before (other than one that was already cracked and junk) so I want to avoid that if I can. Worst case I'll have to install some gussets in the corners to reinforce the joints where I cannot have full 360 degree access. The NHRA rules state as long as the joint is welded at least 75% around it's acceptable if a gusset is installed. I'm learning that rule book too, Section 20.24 for full bodied cars.

If you have to remove the windshield, have a guy that does it for you. He will have to clean and use new urethane to mount and seal it.

And yes the holes sound like the best way.

could be a good time to go with an Optic Armor windshield

travelers said:

If you have to remove the windshield, have a guy that does it for you. He will have to clean and use new urethane to mount and seal it.

And yes the holes sound like the best way.

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Thanks, the more I think about this I highly doubt the windshield will come out, I'd rather just do some gussets in the corners than go through all that. Holes in the floor and gussets will probably be the answer to this puzzle.

AndrewNagle said:

could be a good time to go with an Optic Armor windshield

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If the windshield does end up coming out, I have been thinking about doing this. IDK about the $1,000 price tag (front and rear) but it would be nice to lose that weight right off the front.

I just ran across this at Maximum Motorsports web site. It might be something you can use? Good instruction also.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Roll-Bar-Support-Brackets-2005-2014-Mustang-P1459.aspx

send me pics of the 6 point u want to see and info on it. Looking to do a cage!

travelers said:

I just ran across this at Maximum Motorsports web site. It might be something you can use? Good instruction also.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Roll-Bar-Support-Brackets-2005-2014-Mustang-P1459.aspx

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Thanks, I've seen those before, they do look like nice pieces for a 6 pt bar but I don't think they'll work right for a full 10 pt cage since they're back a little too far for the NHRA required "D" bars to properly connect to the trans tunnel.

roberts said:

send me pics of the 6 point u want to see and info on it. Looking to do a cage!

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Probably best to look at my thread here when I installed it. There's a few scratches now but it's still super sexy!

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114450&highlight=swflastang05's+build&page=18

My new 10 pt cage was delivered today! It's a work of art, pre-bent, jig notched, ready to weld in. Actually I'll probably paint it first, other than the ends. I'm thinking just a rattle can paint job, nothing too fancy. Then I'll have to figure out how to access some of the weld joints. As I suspected, the ceiling joints will not be the most difficult, but rather the front joints will be where the A-pillar bars come down to the floor and the door bars and rocker bars all meet. I don't see how in the heck one could possibly access 50% of those joints with a tig torch. I know gussets are permitted in such cases but there's nowhere for them either! In any case I'm probably not going to begin this install until after the Bradenton race this year since I don't want to rush this job, I want to take my time and do it right, and maybe even enjoy it. I'll post some pics shortly, and throughout the install.

Good luck and enjoy. The more bars the more completed it gets and getting to them to weld.

swflastang05 said:

My new 10 pt cage was delivered today! It's a work of art, pre-bent, jig notched, ready to weld in. Actually I'll probably paint it first, other than the ends. I'm thinking just a rattle can paint job, nothing too fancy. Then I'll have to figure out how to access some of the weld joints. As I suspected, the ceiling joints will not be the most difficult, but rather the front joints will be where the A-pillar bars come down to the floor and the door bars and rocker bars all meet. I don't see how in the heck one could possibly access 50% of those joints with a tig torch. I know gussets are permitted in such cases but there's nowhere for them either! In any case I'm probably not going to begin this install until after the Bradenton race this year since I don't want to rush this job, I want to take my time and do it right, and maybe even enjoy it. I'll post some pics shortly, and throughout the install.

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Thats why I still rock the 5 point with the removable door bar. Gets me by the street nights and T&T. Full cage is scary on the street.