B53 shortblock vs others

inglimer

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Is there any compelling reason to go with the B53 iron block which will add roughly 100 lbs to the car, as opposed to a forged rotating assembly in the stock aluminum block?
I realize this may be self answering, but didn't know if I had missed something obvious.
 

RED09GT

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The stock block in these cars is strong. You'll be able to make your power goal with less boost with the B53 but it is pretty easy to make that kind of power with moderate boost levels on a stock block and crank with forged rods and pistons.
With your goals, stock block, stock crank, almost any of the h-beam rods, and 2618 forged pistons somewhere around stock compression would be my suggestion.
 

46addict

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Is there any compelling reason to go with the B53 iron block which will add roughly 100 lbs to the car, as opposed to a forged rotating assembly in the stock aluminum block?
I realize this may be self answering, but didn't know if I had missed something obvious.
Since the B53 setup nets a sort of aggressive compression for boost, and you'll want to use 2618 pistons anyway, you may be better off swapping in 2618 forged pistons in a 9.0-9.5 comp rating. So if there is a need for more boost you don't have to worry about hitting a compression ceiling on 93 octane.

The business of getting serious hp from a 4.6 seems to be an expensive minefield.
I'm not sure I wouldn't be better off going to a coyote gen car with bolt ons.

A bolt on Coyote will be anemic compared to a boosted 4.6. Not to mention if you were to boost the Coyote you'll be back in the same predicament.

drive_55_not said:
You'd want to use the COMETIC 3v big bore gasket.

When putting numbers into compression calculators, should I match the gasket diameter to bore size, or are gaskets slightly larger?
 

inglimer

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Thanks.
Now I'm thinking one of the Modmax rotating assemblies w\o the crank and substitute the 2618 pistons for the less robust ones.
Am I getting closer?
 

RED09GT

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Thanks.
Now I'm thinking one of the Modmax rotating assemblies w\o the crank and substitute the 2618 pistons for the less robust ones.
Am I getting closer?

Sort of. I would keep the 2618 pistons as they are more forgiving and I would skip the rotating assemblies and just buy pistons, rings, rods, and bearings.
 

46addict

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I would also use the stock block as long as the machine shop okays it.

Steve/Tasca should be able to help you with Boss 302 rods too if you go that route. Those are cheaper than the aftermarket H beams and should easily support 550 wheel.
 

swflastang05

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As RED09GT stated above, I also would suggest keeping the oem 3v block and crank, just get a decent set of 2618 pistons and H-beam rods, Manley's or something similar, along with billet oil pump gears and all your normal rebuild parts i.e. timing drive set, bearings, gaskets, etc. Such a SB should hold 550hp all day long without breaking a sweat and would be much cheaper than a pre-assembled SB. Of course you would need to assemble it yourself, or find someone that you're comfortable with to assemble it for you.
 

inglimer

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An earlier post said to be sure and get the pistons "skirt coated". Not familiar and is this something I need to get with the pistons?
 

RED09GT

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An earlier post said to be sure and get the pistons "skirt coated". Not familiar and is this something I need to get with the pistons?

To me, coatings are like sprinkles on a sundae. They look good and people will swear that a sundae is incomplete without them but it is usually the ice cream and the chocolate that make the sundae for me. I have never used piston coatings and the motors I've lost could not have been saved by coating the pistons. They may help but there have been plenty of fast motors built with un-coated pistons.
 

inglimer

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What specific cc\dish specs on the pistons will give me what cr I should have with a boosted 3v? Modmax has some Diamond 2618's that sound pretty good, but I'm not familiar with figuring cr based on piston cc etc.
Also, anything special on the head gaskets?
 
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swflastang05

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I believe they list about what the CR should be on that website, I would stay as close to OEM as possible which is 9.8:1. If you want to go with Diamond I would get the 6 cc dish which according to the site should be 10.23:1. You might want to consider these 6.5cc dish Manley's since they already come with the skirts coated and are only $17 more than the Diamonds, and 9.86:1 CR.

http://www.modmaxracing.com/product-p/man594300c-8.htm

Also FWIW I would recommend running steel rings, some on this site will argue that moly are good enough for such a build but I prefer steel. It also wouldn't hurt to get the better pins. I know you only want 550hp but your goals may change in the future and this will keep the door open without having to redo the SB. Just get the FRPP head gasket changing set and use the gaskets that come with that kit.
 

inglimer

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Those Manleys sound right. One of my earlier responders on here said stainless steel rings would cause it to use oil?
Really don't mean to bombard you all with questions, but this engine building is new ground, even though I've been a car guy since I was twelve.
 

inglimer

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The boss rods via Tasca and Steve are way cheaper.
So, do stainless rings cause em to burn oil or are they the way to go?
 

eighty6gt

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I'd get H beams.

- reusable bolts
- easier to balance with aftermarket pistons. They had to take a lot of material off of my boss rods. I'm sure I've posted somewhere else that at the factory they can match sets of 8 rods together for mass. No way to do that when you only have 8. One of my rods was pretty light so they were taking 3.5 grams off a few of the others.
 

swflastang05

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The boss rods via Tasca and Steve are way cheaper.
So, do stainless rings cause em to burn oil or are they the way to go?

No steel rings will not cause it to burn oil, as long as you seat them correctly when you first crank the new motor. To seat them correctly first do not let it idle for long periods of time, the least idling as possible is best then you need to load the rings up, accelerate uphill quickly if possible to build some boost, or make some short wot bursts to build some heat into the rings, then cruise for a few to let them cool then heat them up again, this loading and heat cycling will properly seat the steel rings then they wont burn any oil at all. I usually put about 200-250 street miles on my motors before the first oil change. If you watch the oil dipstick level you'll see when the rings seat and it stops using oil, well within the 200 miles. Or you can do this on a dyno, if that's an option for you.
 
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inglimer

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The shop where the whole project will be done is dyno equipped and uses Lund for their Ford tuning.
So the car can actually be broken in on the dyno

if I am interpreting your post correctly?
 

drive_55_not

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No doubt you will save a considerable amount of money building your own motor, for a medium power econo build,, I'll have no opinion on using a cast crank … but I would suggest a better rod, the Boss rods really aren't designed to handle high power stress.





If you do keep the cast crank, you'll want a aftermarket damper, either ATI or IW, they are lighter and will be easier on the crank snout...$450



WISECO 3v piston -6.5cc dish … K0075X2 … $800.00 , Better piston/wrist pin than the Manley's

Molnar H-Beam … FH5933RFB8-A … $615

FRPP 4.6l TTY main bolt kit … M-6345-A46 … $50 or ARP Main/Side bolts $300

Ford TTY 3v Head Changing Kit M-6067-3V46 …. $85


or ARP 3v head studs $350

Clevite Main/Rod bearings Standard size … CB1442A … rod .. $40 // mains MS2259H .. $90

2013 GT500 oil pump M-6600-F46 … $90 ..


You may want to swap the bypass spring from the 3v pump otherwise the GT500 spring will pump out 75psi cruising and 100+WOT.

You can reuse your timing chains and tensioners, I'm still running my original ones.



Cylinder overbore/hone and balancing the crank will run 500-800 depending on the shop.
If you reuse the stock crank, as long as the bearings look good, you can avoid align honing the crank bore .. I'd ask the shop what they think though.




I know you can pay <$300 at Rednek Joe's machine shop for bore/hone and balancing but but Joe likely only machines old push rod Chebby motors and has never seen a late model aluminum block so if cuts your block like an old iron block Chebby, Redneck Joe just stuck you with a boat anchor.



All the external gaskets are reusable as long as you don't tear them during dis-assembly



Doing it this way you'll be about $3500 into it by the time you factor in other stuff.

As for oil burning, ring end gap is also a factor in oil use, I went a little wide on my current build [.024 top/.026 bottom] in prep for a big turbo install but in-hind sight, I should've stuck with .020/.022 as I'm seeing a little more oil use than I'd like.



.
 

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