2005 GT 5 Speed Won't Start - Neutral Saftey

Okay guys I've searched and found nothing on the subject. The previous owner of my 2005 GT had removed the neutral safety switch and had it hard wired straight across. I've done all my troubleshooting up to the point to where I found out I have no power running to those wires. If I put power from a jumper to the hard wired neutral safety then it will start (that is without using the key). I don't think I'm getting any power from my ignition switch to those wires. Any ideas??

I'm not sure I understand what your problem is. Does the car crank over and continue to run? Does it just crank without starting? Other?

FWIW, the previous owner may have hardwired the clutch interlock function because it was too sensitive to clutch pedal position not being buried somewhere below the surface of the OE floor mat (it's not reliably height-adjustable). Mine was sensitive like that . . . for less than two weeks.


Norm

The car won't turn over at all. Not getting any power to starter. From the diagrams I have found it starts at the ignition. Then goes to neutral safety then to ignition module and then to starter. I think I'm losing power from the ignition to the neutral safety (which has been straight wired)

Does hard wiring the clutch switch allow it to start in gear? Because the switch is what I think I keep calling the neutral safety. It should be mounted to the clutch pedal correct?

Avery115 said:

Does hard wiring the clutch switch allow it to start in gear? Because the switch is what I think I keep calling the neutral safety. It should be mounted to the clutch pedal correct?

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Yes, sounds like the same thing, and sort of.

It's officially called the 'Clutch Pedal Position Switch', and IIRC it's attached to the dashboard structure. It's the switch's plunger that actually contacts the clutch pedal, but it is not firmly attached to the pedal. The switch is held 'open' (electrically) when the clutch is not depressed (or depressed far enough). Depressing the pedal fully to the floor allows the plunger to extend outward from the switch body far enough to close the circuitry that then permits starter operation.


FWIW . . . some of us were driving before cars started to have this switch, and there are a few (albeit rare) circumstances where there is value in being able to bump the car along on the starter motor.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

FWIW . . . some of us were driving before cars started to have this switch, and there are a few (albeit rare) circumstances where there is value in being able to bump the car along on the starter motor.

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Outside of the litigation-happy US, I don't think there are any car makers that install a clutch safety switch on their manual tranny cars.

Here you go, this might help a little.



The clutch pedal switch is mounted to the plastic bracket that the pedals attach to at the fire wall, it's the lower one. There's also an upper switch that's activated by the clutch pedal but that's related to the cruise control. They both connect to c215 behind the instrument cluster.

Have you tried using a different key? Maybe it has something to do with the PAT system. Maybe it is not recognizing the key and won't allow power to the starter.

Ford told me to try another key. And the previous owner didn’t have a second key. I’m taking it to them next week since my Shop doesn’t have the necessary tools required for a new ignition switch and to program a key. Hopefully that fixes my problems. Thanks for the wiring diagram. I haven’t been able to find one anywhere online!

Avery115 said:

Thanks for the wiring diagram. I haven’t been able to find one anywhere online!

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Linky to the S197 Mustang Work Shop Manuals ..

http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=1


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Avery115 said:

Ford told me to try another key. And the previous owner didn’t have a second key. I’m taking it to them next week since my Shop doesn’t have the necessary tools required for a new ignition switch and to program a key. Hopefully that fixes my problems. Thanks for the wiring diagram. I haven’t been able to find one anywhere online!

Click to expand...

If the key had died the starter would still turn and crank the motor, the fuel injectors simply wouldn't fire. Had a key go dead in my 2001 Mustang, car would crank but not run. Although, Ford may have changed that in the 05+ possibly not allow crank at all, but I can't verify as I don't have a non-chipped key to work with.

As for the CPPS, I've run into a couple guys who wanted a remote start on their manual cars, you can wire the CPPS so that you can turn the car over without pressing the clutch.

You're bang on the right track for diagnosis. Focus on those ignition switch components, my money's on it. Highly doubt it's the key, but if you need a 2nd key anyway, it's at least a worthy investment there.

Not sure of the strategy in the PCM on this circuit but if you look at the Electronic Engine Controls - 4.6L section sheet 5 you will see that there are two switches involved in this process it appears. One is the clutch pedal position switch (CPP signal into the PCM) Connector C257 and the other is the DEACTIVATOR SWITCH Connector C277. Both signals appear to need to be grounded for the PCM to allow the car to start according to the drawing. Attached is the link to this schematic. I am assuming the PCM needs to see both made (positive AND logic statement) before the car will start. The wire feeding the Clutch Pedal Position Switch is LIGHT BLUE/YELLOW. The wire feeding the Deactivator switch is SOLID WHITE. The BLACK WIRE on both switch connectors goes to ground.

Good luck.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?d=40&f=Electronic Engine Controls - 4.6L.pdf&p=5

702GT said:

If the key had died the starter would still turn and crank the motor, the fuel injectors simply wouldn't fire. Had a key go dead in my 2001 Mustang, car would crank but not run. Although, Ford may have changed that in the 05+ possibly not allow crank at all, but I can't verify as I don't have a non-chipped key to work with.

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S197 PATS disables the starter.