AX Tire Choice

John@Steeda

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What kind of wear are you getting on those Falkens? I'm not as into being competitive as I used to be, and I'm considering going to a single tire for both street and autox to simplify things and save a bit of money.

granted, im running a FWD car now. My Fiesta st for most of this year has been running a spring only on a stock shock, so i ran excessive camber, im talking over 3.2 degrees neg, ran a few events with the tires not rotated and logged about 30-35 runs on the fronts with about 1500 street miles and killed about half their tread on the inner blocks, im also pushing it hard and was most likely doing some overdriving. with the new shocks and being a bit nicer to them, im expecting 60-70 runs out of the others before i flip them on the rims and run them the wrong way for dry events only.

I never ran the old ones, but ive heard the + that i have wear a bit quicker, but have better sustained loading and handle the heat better than the old ones.


edit. you can see a bit of how loaded up i am on them, made it a link bc its a big picture

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=cde385bc94d0766138d6e7e1306db4dd&oe=5A826DF9
 
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Pentalab

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Class winner and top PAX, very nice !!

But the resident tire experts say you can't use 285's on only a 9" wheel because it won't handle good. Huh? Who should I believe? The guy with the race car trophy or the guys that can only drive a keyboard?

I'm running 315/30R18's on a 10" wide wheel. That too must be a bad handling combination. But my collection of trophies says otherwise.

I've tried to bring real tire data and facts to this forum but the guys who post the most seem to think they know the most and keep repeating bad info.

Here is some factual tire info.....

http://s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2379367&postcount=25

Plus there are more posts in the rest of the thread if you are interested.

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2379367#post2379367

Tire rack won't install tires on rims that are outside the min /max range of the tire in question. Some local tires shops will do it, but most won't. The ones that won't, site either legal liability reasons, or shop /owner policy. I suppose if you told em it was for off road use, they may well relent, provided u just threw em in the back of a truck.

Plan B is to just buy the optimum width rims, with correct offset. Vorshlags 11" wide rims have a different ET for fronts..vs rears. Then you could use anything from a 275 up to a 315. Biggest thing I have seen on the back of a mustang is a 335 MPSS on a widened, 11.5" wide rim.
 

Racer47

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Again you are missing the point. Sure with unlimited money I could buy perfectly sized custom wheels. Maybe just buy new tires and wheels every month so that I don't have to clean brake dust. Maybe just get a C7 or Lambo or why not a Koenigsegg, cost is no object.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no ideal size tire. Ideal for what? For what you consider a handling test? For an autox? For a drag race?

Thenorm says he has wheel rules. So if he has to have a 9" wheel, is a 255 wide tire ideal? No, not for autox or road race or drag race. He's running 285's because they are faster.

I have 10" wheels. I'm not spending $1600 for Forgestar 11" wheels. But I can still use 315's because they are faster than 285's.
 

Pentalab

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Again you are missing the point. Sure with unlimited money I could buy perfectly sized custom wheels. Maybe just buy new tires and wheels every month so that I don't have to clean brake dust. Maybe just get a C7 or Lambo or why not a Koenigsegg, cost is no object.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no ideal size tire. Ideal for what? For what you consider a handling test? For an autox? For a drag race?

Thenorm says he has wheel rules. So if he has to have a 9" wheel, is a 255 wide tire ideal? No, not for autox or road race or drag race. He's running 285's because they are faster.

I have 10" wheels. I'm not spending $1600 for Forgestar 11" wheels. But I can still use 315's because they are faster than 285's.

Points well taken. It depends on your starting point. If the car say came with oem 4 x 235's + oem 8" rims..... and you want bigger, buy 11's.. vs 10's. Or a 10" front..and 11" rear. Thenorm has a max rim width rule he has to work with.... so that's a different circumstance. The initial cost of the 11" rim(s) vs 10" rims is not going to be huge. Add up all the $$ spent over 3-10 years worth of expensive AX tires, (at $1225.00 for 4 x RE-71R's) and the initial cost of optimized rim widths sorta becomes a moot point. You can make the rims last a long time..and also sell em at any point. But trashed tires are trashed tires.
 
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Thenorm

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Class winner and top PAX, very nice !!

But the resident tire experts say you can't use 285's on only a 9" wheel because it won't handle good. Huh? Who should I believe? The guy with the race car trophy or the guys that can only drive a keyboard?

I'm running 315/30R18's on a 10" wide wheel. That too must be a bad handling combination. But my collection of trophies says otherwise.

I've tried to bring real tire data and facts to this forum but the guys who post the most seem to think they know the most and keep repeating bad info.

Here is some factual tire info.....

http://s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2379367&postcount=25

Plus there are more posts in the rest of the thread if you are interested.

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2379367#post2379367

i've read your other posts. I'm on your side. Actually i have a truck tire question maybe you can advise on...

Chevy silverado 1500 crew z71, door placard calls for 45psi. came with C load LT tires. since exact replacements are hard to find, I upgraded to E load LT. because I tow i didn't want to get P tires. So, what pressure? I don't want to run 80psi as the chassis will never carry the total "E" load. do I run 45psi like the door placard says? is there a minimum pressure? i read somewhere to run minimum 58% max pressure, which is 46 psi.


RE71 and rivals 1.5's are the top tire for street, ST, and CAM classes right now. the nexen's had a few good showings this year but iirc no one at nats won on them

there was a few winners on nexens. Brian Heitkotter in STU, but he's an alien. also there were a few winners at the prosolo. the contingency on Nexens was really good too.

Tire rack won't install tires on rims that are outside the min /max range of the tire in question. Some local tires shops will do it, but most won't. The ones that won't, site either legal liability reasons, or shop /owner policy. I suppose if you told em it was for off road use, they may well relent, provided u just threw em in the back of a truck.

very true. Costco (where i bought them) wouldn't install my tires, so I went to my friendly local independent tire shop.
 

John@Steeda

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i



there was a few winners on nexens. Brian Heitkotter in STU, but he's an alien. also there were a few winners at the prosolo. the contingency on Nexens was really good too.

.

lol brian is an alien, i knew teddie when she used to race down here in south florida years ago in an E street miata.

forgot he was on them, but again, i dont count that, brian could be on sumitumos and win
 

Racer47

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The initial cost of the 11" rim(s) vs 10" rims is not going to be huge. Add up all the $$ spent over 3-10 years worth of expensive AX tires, (at $1225.00 for 4 x RE-71R's) and the initial cost of optimized rim widths sorta becomes a moot point.

$1600 11" Forgestar vs $375 for a lightly used set of 10" SVE Drifts is a significant difference. $400 for a set of 4, 1 run old, 315 BFG R1S's was also a steal. I'm all in at $800 for a set of killer tires.

So what class do you run? What racing experience do you have?
 

Racer47

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Chevy silverado 1500 crew z71, door placard calls for 45psi. came with C load LT tires. since exact replacements are hard to find, I upgraded to E load LT. because I tow i didn't want to get P tires. So, what pressure? I don't want to run 80psi as the chassis will never carry the total "E" load. do I run 45psi like the door placard says? is there a minimum pressure? i read somewhere to run minimum 58% max pressure, which is 46 psi.

The original load C should have been a 50 psi max tire. Load E is 80 psi max but you don't need to run them that high. Unloaded I run them around 40 psi just for the better ride. Loaded and/or towing 55 psi would be good. That will give a little load carrying margin over the original C at 45 psi, yet not be as stiff as they would be a 80 psi.

Realistically, those load E tires are damn near bullet proof. They would easily survive at 35 psi, loaded and towing as much as a 1500 truck can handle. So anywhere from 45 psi to 60 psi would be fine. And there really isn't an official minimum pressure.
 

Sky Render

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$1600 11" Forgestar vs $375 for a lightly used set of 10" SVE Drifts is a significant difference. $400 for a set of 4, 1 run old, 315 BFG R1S's was also a steal. I'm all in at $800 for a set of killer tires.

So what class do you run? What racing experience do you have?

While I agree with everything you've posted about tires, I wouldn't put a set of cheap, cast, knockoff "SVE" wheels in anywhere near the same category as a set of Forgestar or Apex wheels.
 

Racer47

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There are plenty of guys running sve drifts with no issues. No they are not the same as Forgestars but they are plenty good enough and the price is right. If fact right now you can get a brand new set of four 18x10 for $423 total.

Plus, I'm not trying to debate the quality of wheels. I'm just tired of guys insisting that you must run 255 tires on 9" wide wheels because that is "optimum" or "ideal" and any other size tire will result in significantly reduced "handling".
 

fourdegrees11

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Those 18x10 drifts are really great for only $450. I wish they would make a special edition with their new flow forming process (S350, R350, GT7) to get the weight down to 20 lbs, that would be killer.

You know there's a "new product idea" option on LMR's contact form if you guys want to jump in (I already requested the above) *hint*hint*
 

Pentalab

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My street wheels are 18x8 with 255s on it. It handles like shit. :rolleyes:

/sarcasm

Put the same 255's on 18 x 9 and they handle good on the street.
275's on 18 x 9 handle sluggish on the street / hwy. 275's on 18 x 10 is a night and day difference. I used all 3 of those combo's. Use whatever works, and what fits your budget, for your particular application. Kinda tough to come up with one combo that works for DD / ax / drag racing / odd street race..ditto with suspension setups.
 

Sky Render

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Put the same 255's on 18 x 9 and they handle good on the street.
275's on 18 x 9 handle sluggish on the street / hwy. 275's on 18 x 10 is a night and day difference. I used all 3 of those combo's. Use whatever works, and what fits your budget, for your particular application. Kinda tough to come up with one combo that works for DD / ax / drag racing / odd street race..ditto with suspension setups.

http://lmgtfy.com/?iie=1&q=define%3Asarcasm
 

Racer47

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is a night and day difference.

90% of your "night and day difference" is placebo. 10% is real. You think there should be a big difference, therefore you think you feel a big difference. If you were to test the same car, same tires, same track, back to back with different size wheels, you'd see just how little difference there is.

This is the last time I'm posting on this thread because I'm sure you'll have a rebuttal. But, I was a tire test engr for 15yrs, with lab equipment, computer modeling equipment and test driving including wet track, dry track, high speed, snow and public roads. Plus throw on top of that about 25 yrs worth of w2w racing. I'm not making any of this shit up to try and impress someone on a car forum. I'm trying to pass along real, hard earned, tire knowledge.

I'm out.
 

Pentalab

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90% of your "night and day difference" is placebo. 10% is real. You think there should be a big difference, therefore you think you feel a big difference. If you were to test the same car, same tires, same track, back to back with different size wheels, you'd see just how little difference there is.


I'm out.

I started off with 255-45-18 on a 9" rim. Worked 'good' by my meager standards. Then decided to mount my spare 275-40-18's on the same 9" rim. More traction, but it felt all wrong. Sluggish, unresponsive, delayed, squishy, slightly more steering effort required. Dunno how else to describe it. For DD / hwy use, I really didn't like it. Tried tweaking air pressures to no avail. I had no clue what to expect, but I wasn't banking on the sluggish feeling, it was a big let down.
With the 255's on the 9" rims, you could throw it all over the road.

Then swapped the 275's from 9"... to 10" rims. (so went from 1/2" below measuring width to 1/2" above measuring width). Anybody could tell the difference, it was readily apparent, blatantly obvious. The sluggishness etc subsided greatly. I had several of my friends drive it, within 3 weeks after the switch, without telling em what I had done. (They had driven it b4, with the 9" rims). They too noticed it. 'handles better', 'better steering response', 'what did you do to the car', 'feels like more pwr steering', 'feels smoother'.

Ok, to clarify, these various combo's are FRONTS.

Placebo effect, I don't think so, esp when 3 other folks noticed. I call it how I see it. I have tried all sorts of other stuff that either didn't produce expected results, didn't know what to expect, or were minimal improvements, non existent improvements, or 1-4 steps backwards. I try and take notes on what was tried, then move on. ( suspension mods + tweaks, eng mods + tweaks, several different tunes, cooling mods, tranny mods, hids,leds, wiring upgrades etc).

Next spring, I plan to try a 285-40-18 on the front, and a 305-35-19 on the rear. (move the 285's from back to front..then install the 305 rears). I'm looking for a tiny bit more traction on the street, at top end of 2nd gear, with blower on. Will it work, who knows, I'll find out.
 
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Grabber

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If you can find them, Toyo RA1's were the shit.

Had them on my 03 Cobra on all four corners which was bought from a guy that did heavy Auto X racing. The car was an Auto x king for sure, and those tires gripped like crazy, but, wore fast.

Otherwise, what these guys said.
 

Thenorm

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So anywhere from 45 psi to 60 psi would be fine.

that was my plan 45 unloaded upto 60 for max load. thanks.

now back to our regularly scheduled programming
 
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