Get rid of your 3valve it'll never be fast!!!

Department Of Boost said:

One, I don't believe that dog and pony show shit anymore. You can make ANYTHING show more power on the dyno. And two, it was on 94 octane.

And notice how they didn't say how much boost it had.

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Can you expand on this? Besides weather corrections what can one do to skew dyno numbers? I know on Mustang Dynos you can change the vehicle weight to manipulate the end result, but can you do that on all dynos?

NUTCASE said:

both require tearing the whole motor down and 3v parts are cheaper than yote parts.

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Some sources say the 2015+ Yotes can take more power on an untouched shortblock.

tjm73 said:

I read once that OEM's are required by law to produce service/repair parts for 7 years. Don't know if that is true or not, but it's been 7 years since the 3V 4.6 left the production line. 2011 brought the 5.0 to the Mustang and F-150's.

Flip side!!! 7 years with the 5.0 DOHC already?!?!?

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I thought that was 7 years from date of introduction, not from when discontinued. I know 2005-09 PCMs (or was it alternators. I cant remember) were no longer available through dealers at the early part of this decade. And it's not a law, more of a gentlemen's agreement.

eighty6gt said:

Anyone want to discuss why nobody ever builds a stroker when they build their 4.6 short blocks? I've looked around. No point I guess, a few downsides.

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There are plenty of people here who have stroker setups. NA and boosted. Red09 makes a good point though. No sense in the extra 20 some cubes if you can turn up the boost and get better results. Money would be better spent on a second power adder (nitrous).

Nitrous would be neat but you'd need two timing and fuel tables, one for when you had it on and one not. I don't think the ECU's can handle this. Maybe there's some way, use a table or modifier for something else, have it set to boolean is nitrous on yes or no, or 0 or 1... Lito might know. I'd love it!

If you wanted it bad enough you could purchase two separate tunes and choose the flavor of the day. I don't think driving it on the nitrous tune with neutered timing would hurt the car either, unless it's for a huge shot of nitrous.

46addict said:

Can you expand on this? Besides weather corrections what can one do to skew dyno numbers? I know on Mustang Dynos you can change the vehicle weight to manipulate the end result, but can you do that on all dynos?

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Yes, with a couple of keystrokes you can manipulate the results. You can also manipulate the results with what you do to all the variables during the run.

Department Of Boost said:

It depends on what you're using for forced induction. PD blower? Centri blower? Turbo?

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Turbo for me. But can you explain a little more why?

eighty6gt said:

Nitrous would be neat but you'd need two timing and fuel tables, one for when you had it on and one not. I don't think the ECU's can handle this. Maybe there's some way, use a table or modifier for something else, have it set to boolean is nitrous on yes or no, or 0 or 1... Lito might know. I'd love it!

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Me and many others do it the old[ish] way. Lets say your window opens at 4000, just begin nitrous spark tables at 4000. Most guys who run spray just arent thinking about off the bottle tables. Theres a lot of street fodder that wants no part of me with 10* pulled anyway. I imagine its the same story for a modded yote.

As far as the fuel part if you are non progressive you can just tune with jets and fuel pressure. If you are progressive with not a lot of range you can still just tune with jets. A bunch of progressive systems have independent fuel and nitrous timing so you can tune out lean and fat spots you get with a wider range.

Marble said:

Turbo for me. But can you explain a little more why?

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The more air the motor will flow the better a turbo/centri will work because they are "blowers". A Positive Displacement blower doesn't care. The air the PD blower moves WILL go through the motor.

NUTCASE said:

Me and many others do it the old[ish] way. Lets say your window opens at 4000, just begin nitrous spark tables at 4000. Most guys who run spray just arent thinking about off the bottle tables. Theres a lot of street fodder that wants no part of me with 10* pulled anyway. I imagine its the same story for a modded yote.

As far as the fuel part if you are non progressive you can just tune with jets and fuel pressure. If you are progressive with not a lot of range you can still just tune with jets. A bunch of progressive systems have independent fuel and nitrous timing so you can tune out lean and fat spots you get with a wider range.

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Are you always running around on the spray? I wonder how long a bottle would last with a 75 shot, and if that would even be a good idea. I remember researching nitrous oxide effects on intake temps, it's kind of 6 of one half dozen of the other, you might pick something up but you're basically not getting more than what you bargained for.

eighty6gt said:

Are you always running around on the spray? I wonder how long a bottle would last with a 75 shot, and if that would even be a good idea. I remember researching nitrous oxide effects on intake temps, it's kind of 6 of one half dozen of the other, you might pick something up but you're basically not getting more than what you bargained for.

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I don't just always drive around on spray. The car gets driven once a week these days and I only put the bottle in when I intend to race. Like I said, I just don't give a crap about the timing because the car still moves good without it.

a 75 shot is nothing to any year mustang GT. Its not recommended, but people run a 75 shot on a modular without doing any tuning at all. No plugs, no purge, just hook it up and go.

The primary thing nitrous does is deliver oxygen to combustion. It will also cool and condense your intake air greatly, especially on larger shots. you do add volume just by the fuel and boiling nitrous, however boiling nitrous takes so much energy out of the air that your total mix will still be much denser and cooler. In most cases everything gets sucked into the cylinder so fast the boiling nitrous never comes into equilibrium so doing gas calculations to find the volume of the final state is pointless.

Your engine heating up is because you are lighting off a much more volatile mix in the cylinder. This can effect intake heat, but it is separate from intake heat.

NUTCASE is making me consider putting nitrous in my Coyote.

What's stopping you?

Probably the cost of nitrous right now and if you use it heavily for racing you will have eventually paid for a supercharger / turbocharger which doesn't need refilled for use?

That has been what has kept me from putting on a 125 shot wet plate kit. That is if you do it the right way with all the safety stuff , progressive controller , etc. Yea a 75 shot kit with a nozzle into the tube is pretty cheap and if your on a button for it , that does make it simple.

Department Of Boost said:

The more air the motor will flow the better a turbo/centri will work because they are "blowers". A Positive Displacement blower doesn't care. The air the PD blower moves WILL go through the motor.

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Thank you.

46addict said:

What's stopping you?

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The mental block of nitrous being "bad" for a motor.

Plus I would still need a standard tune for autocross and track days. That 10° of timing retard would actually cost me time.

Sky Render said:

The mental block of nitrous being "bad" for a motor.

Plus I would still need a standard tune for autocross and track days. That 10° of timing retard would actually cost me time.

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Too bad these ECUs don't have the ability to throw a switch .....I think a bunch of the diesel ECUs you can do that.

Throwing on a nitrous tune that much of a hassle?

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Sky Render said:

The mental block of nitrous being "bad" for a motor.

Plus I would still need a standard tune for autocross and track days. That 10° of timing retard would actually cost me time.

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In Nutcase's scenario he may have needed to pull 10 degrees because he's running a ton of nitrous. The rule of thumb is 2 degrees per 50 shot.

Cost/availability is an issue though. There is a plant that went down and I'm not sure how much other parts of the country were affected. When things were good I could get it for $3 per pound so for a 10lb bottle it would take 100+ refills to fund a blower setup. I ended up going the blower route anyway though.

slackinoff said:

Too bad these ECUs don't have the ability to throw a switch .....I think a bunch of the diesel ECUs you can do that.

Throwing on a nitrous tune that much of a hassle?

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

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The 2v and 4v cars can run a TwEECer which allows a "flip chip." I've never used it before but it's a neat idea. http://www.tweecer.com/cc_order.htm

46addict said:

The 2v and 4v cars can run a TwEECer which allows a "flip chip." I've never used it before but it's a neat idea. http://www.tweecer.com/cc_order.htm

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That is really cool. I tuned my friends turbo Integra using a modified ECU.... You would actually pull a chip out of the ECU and put it into this device and burn the tune onto the chip. It was awesome.....we had no datalogging, we would video (with a minidv camera haha) the rpm, boost, and afr. This was when I was 16, back in HS. Good times. Really makes me want to learn how to tune a 3v.

If you have a business that involves welding you can get nitrous tanks. If you know a guy who knows a guy you can make the truck with all the tanks on it stop by your house. If you have a good connection with a shop that usually sells nitrous they can buy the tanks and resell them to you. This will cost a little more but still cost less than by the pound.

Many shops will prefer to just sell you the tank if you are a cool dude because in order to sell you by the pound somebody has to stop welding a cage, stop tuning the 1000hp motor, or stop porting the cylinder head to do something very low skill level with a small profit margin.

As I said above though its not recommended, many guys with GT mustangs of all years have just stuck the injector in there with the 75 pills and the button and call it a day. No tuning.

I got into nitrous because of low price of entry. Yeah bottles will add up, but just getting 2 bottles topped off at a time is more immediate and reasonable than trying to save up the money for a supercharger or turbo. i.e. guy trying to support family of 5 while saving for house with 3 cars and two car notes can separate ~$100 to top off a couple of bottles, however saving up $4000 or more is simply not going to happen.

I also have been staying with nitrous because a nitrous powered motor is not as effected by ambient temps, humidity, and barometric pressure like other setups. Furthermore when I bracket or index race I can ramp the nitrous so I get more at the end which is very useful against sandbaggers who try to sit next to you through the back half of the track. (trick them into lifting early then take off on them where the deep gears, heavy tires, and converter actually work against them)

P.S. near me I get lots of sandbaggers in street and pro class. People take a car that looks like it came from the junk yard, fix it up to run 10s on a shoestring budget, then [regularly oil down the track] try to sit next to some guy in a 14 sec car through the traps because if they don't win they can't pay their electric bill this month.

Nothing is more sandbagging than getting a racing association to change it's rules for a class so you can run your detuned 9 second coyote swapped , TVS Foxbody in a footbrake index class.

ponys197 said:

Nothing is more sandbagging than getting a racing association to change it's rules for a class so you can run your detuned 9 second coyote swapped , TVS Foxbody in a footbrake index class.

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Who did this? Because this sounds like a thinnly veiled jab at someone.