S197 Mustang Forum - S197Forum.com

Go Back   S197 Mustang Forum - S197Forum.com > Mustang s197 Tech Forums > 2005+ Ford Mustang v6 4.0L Tech

2005+ Ford Mustang v6 4.0L Tech Technical discussion about the 2005+ Ford Mustang 4.0L v6

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2017, 01:59 PM   #1
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default 4.0 V6 Performance Cams

About a month ago, I was having a conversation with one of my friends who has far more automotive knowledge than I. Just to set the stage, when I modify, It's bolt on. When he modify's, welding is always involved. We were talking about the modifications that mustang owners typically make and the one I've done so far. He then asked me why haven't I put performance cams in my engine yet. This guy loves V6 engines, and he's a huge fan of the buick grand nationals, so when he asked about why I haven't recammed yet, it's with the same inflection as if he were asking why I haven't changed my tires yet.

Now I know that there are performance cams for the 4.0, I've seen the at summit racing for around $300. And I get how recamming the engine increases the duration that the valves stay open and closed, basically changing how the engine breaths. However, I didn't think that we could simply recam our engines, and be done with it. I can't remember where I read this, but what I recall is that the rods in the 4.0 are prone to failure with a large increase in power. So I just figured, if you're recamming the engine, you're also upgrading the internals as well. Anyone with some knowledge on this, please chime in. It seems like a project I would have to have a mechanic do for me, but if performance cams can be put in without the extras involved, I may consider it.
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2017, 03:57 PM   #2
JimC
Senior Member
 
JimC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,594
iTrader: 4 / 100%
JimC will become famous soon enough
Default

I don't think that there are "off the shelf" options for cams for the 4.0. The people I know who have done them had to get custom grinds.
__________________
<a href=http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/jimandpat/Sigs/fatw-JimC2013b.jpg target=_blank>http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...-JimC2013b.jpg</a>
JimC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 01:28 PM   #3
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
I don't think that there are "off the shelf" options for cams for the 4.0. The people I know who have done them had to get custom grinds.
http://moranav6racing.com

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com

What about the internals. Did those need to be altered?
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 06:32 PM   #4
01yellerCobra
forum member
 
01yellerCobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,531
iTrader: 9 / 100%
01yellerCobra is on a distinguished road
Default

You can't compare the GN to a 4.0. One was made for performance. The other....not so much.

A new cam doesn't automatically mean you need to upgrade the internals. You need to do that when you start pushing a lot of horsepower. I doubt a new cam would get you close to maxing out the stock shortblock.

If you really want to make your car faster skip the cam and look into forced induction.

Misspelling brought to you by Tapatalk
__________________
His- 2004 Mystichrome Coupe
Hers- 2006 GT. Triple black drop top.
01yellerCobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 07:27 PM   #5
dre256
forum member
 
dre256's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 501
iTrader: 1 / 100%
dre256 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I know am probably just poking the bear but for cash you are dropping in, what about trading it in on a 4.6L 3V GT. Once you put cams in your most likely going to get less MPG than a 3V 4.6L and still be slower, plus my 2003 stock 4.6L 2V still give you a run for your money.

I dealt with Tom years ago from Morana racing. Very nice guy with the traditional sharp Canadian accent. He knows his 3.8L stuff when I had my 1986 fox tbird. Now this was good 15 years ago issue I had when bought stuff from him, wasn't packed the best and was a 50-50 shot of it coming in damaged then you have to argue with UPS. Am glad to see he is still around, very nice guy to talk to. I recommend calling him on the phone and discuss your end game and budget and he can tell you.
__________________
-Brembo Brake Package
-Dyno and transmission tune
-BOSS 302 LS front springs + 55d rear springs + BMR lower control arms
-Sprint Booster (it actually isn't bad) + 84.5mm Throttle Body
12.44 @ 114 MPH

Last edited by dre256; 07-23-2017 at 07:31 PM.
dre256 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2017, 08:53 AM   #6
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dre256 View Post
I know am probably just poking the bear but for cash you are dropping in, what about trading it in on a 4.6L 3V GT. Once you put cams in your most likely going to get less MPG than a 3V 4.6L and still be slower, plus my 2003 stock 4.6L 2V still give you a run for your money.

I dealt with Tom years ago from Morana racing. Very nice guy with the traditional sharp Canadian accent. He knows his 3.8L stuff when I had my 1986 fox tbird. Now this was good 15 years ago issue I had when bought stuff from him, wasn't packed the best and was a 50-50 shot of it coming in damaged then you have to argue with UPS. Am glad to see he is still around, very nice guy to talk to. I recommend calling him on the phone and discuss your end game and budget and he can tell you.
Believe me, I've thought of the whole switch to the 4.6 trade in. The only issues is is that I'm married with 2 kids, and my wife has made it abundantly clear, that once my "mistress" is dead, there will be no replacement. I don't know why she's all bent out of shape, I mean it's just a car. Just because I gave it a woman's name, and I tell her that I love her more that I tell my wife. Women, go figure.

So my goal is to maximize her life span, while at the same time get the most out of her is what I've been pursuing.
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 12:48 PM   #7
Speedboosted
Found missing cylinders
 
Speedboosted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: PNW
Posts: 876
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Speedboosted is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwhite911 View Post
Believe me, I've thought of the whole switch to the 4.6 trade in. The only issues is is that I'm married with 2 kids, and my wife has made it abundantly clear, that once my "mistress" is dead, there will be no replacement. I don't know why she's all bent out of shape, I mean it's just a car. Just because I gave it a woman's name, and I tell her that I love her more that I tell my wife. Women, go figure.

So my goal is to maximize her life span, while at the same time get the most out of her is what I've been pursuing.
Sounds like you should find a new wife.
__________________

2006 3v Swap: Road Course Toy- Lito Tuned
2016 Fiesta ST: Best Daily Ever- all stock
Speedboosted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 01:34 PM   #8
tjm73
of Omicron Persei 8
 
tjm73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 7,599
iTrader: 2 / 100%
tjm73 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwhite911 View Post
The only issues is is that I'm married with 2 kids, and my wife has made it abundantly clear, that once my "mistress" is dead, there will be no replacement.
You have a problem. And I am not making a joke. If you are into cars and this is the attitude your wife has taken or always had, you have a problem. If you want to keep having a fun car and she says no. I am sorry to say it out loud, one thing will have to give. Either you will give up cars or she will give up her stance or you will split.

One person in a relationship can't make such decisions. I had seen this happen to friends and family before I got married and when I met my now wife I made it clear that cars were part of me and will always be part of my life. If she couldn't accept that, we would just as well split then.

Now she has pretty much no interest in the details of cars, but she is supportive of my hobby and does things for me like make sure we don't have family stuff planned on days I want to go to a car show. In many ways this is the best. At times I wish she was a little more interested, but this is my thing and she respects that.

Sounds like your wife doesn't respect you interest in cars. Wish you the best.
__________________
he he hehe he he hehe he he he he hehehehe


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
tjm73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 02:00 PM   #9
46addict
13726548
 
46addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Age: 27
Posts: 1,165
iTrader: 2 / 100%
46addict is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

The thing with trading up is that a 3v 4.6 can seem anemic when put next to a 2011-14 5.0 Coyote, and then they just announced an updated Coyote version with 460bhp. So numbers will keep getting better and sometimes you just work with what you got. I realize there are shortcomings with the 4.0 shortblock and the 7.5" rear end, etc so your ceiling isn't very high with the V6 car. Maybe a compromise can be made with a 4 door performance car that can suit the family. Or maybe you can tell her your 4.0 needs a new alternator. It may last a while with low boost and a good tune.
Attached Thumbnails
sc.jpg  
__________________
Vista Blue Procharged 2007 GT

BBK Longtubes & O/R X--Magnapacks--FRPP hotrod cams--CMDP--3.73s--Exedy Mach 500--DSS Driveshaft
BC Racing Coilovers on 450F/335R--BMR UCA & LCA & relo brackets--MM panhard bar--Hurst Competition shifter

Last edited by 46addict; 07-26-2017 at 02:08 PM.
46addict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 04:23 PM   #10
Dad
forum member
 
Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: SW KY
Posts: 236
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Dad is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
You have a problem. And I am not making a joke. If you are into cars and this is the attitude your wife has taken or always had, you have a problem. If you want to keep having a fun car and she says no. I am sorry to say it out loud, one thing will have to give. Either you will give up cars or she will give up her stance or you will split.

One person in a relationship can't make such decisions. I had seen this happen to friends and family before I got married and when I met my now wife I made it clear that cars were part of me and will always be part of my life. If she couldn't accept that, we would just as well split then.

Now she has pretty much no interest in the details of cars, but she is supportive of my hobby and does things for me like make sure we don't have family stuff planned on days I want to go to a car show. In many ways this is the best. At times I wish she was a little more interested, but this is my thing and she respects that.

Sounds like your wife doesn't respect you interest in cars. Wish you the best.

This all depends on the ages of the kids. I understand her side of it as I have 4 kids at home. I can't fit all the kids in my car, so my wife and I both understand if either of us needs to take all 4 someplace we have to swap vehicles. She doesn't like the car all that much, but she doesn't fuss about it and understands why I bought it.

When the kids are older, the need for a practical family car isn't as great. She may relax her stance on it. I wouldn't assume the worst just yet.

However, if you have more kids, her point gets more strength. And, in that regard, you may have to put your needs on hold for a while and wait a few years to go back to it. This is what I had to do and the sacrifice wasn't that difficult. Heck I drove a full size 4 door Oldsmobile for several years because the needs of my family were more important to me than my own needs. Needs change over time. Be patient.

It is generally not healthy for a relationship for either party to have a line in the stand mentality over stuff like this. Cars and hobbies, while they may be a large part of your life, aren't your life.
Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 04:58 PM   #11
tjm73
of Omicron Persei 8
 
tjm73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 7,599
iTrader: 2 / 100%
tjm73 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

That is true and may or may not be the case he didn't say. Going by what he did say it sounds like when this car is gone the automotive lifestyle is over for him.

I also gave up my Mustangs for a few years to get the house bought and get the kids through diapers. But I drive a supercrew truck and only have two kids. Either of us can take both kids at any time.
__________________
he he hehe he he hehe he he he he hehehehe


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
tjm73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2017, 09:04 AM   #12
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Guys, as I read your replys, I'm both laughing, and thinking your looking too deep into this. My wife is fine with cars and my passion for them. What she's not cool with is how I treat my Mustang like she's the other woman in my life. Anywho, it seems like performance cams might be a bit more work than it's worth.

Last edited by Benwhite911; 07-27-2017 at 12:15 PM. Reason: I can't spell or type
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2017, 10:47 AM   #13
tjm73
of Omicron Persei 8
 
tjm73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 7,599
iTrader: 2 / 100%
tjm73 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Well I am glad to hear I am wrong. I think a turbo or a supercharger would do more for you, but that probably requires internal mods.
__________________
he he hehe he he hehe he he he he hehehehe


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
tjm73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2017, 04:01 PM   #14
NUTCASE
forum member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,615
iTrader: 14 / 100%
NUTCASE is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwhite911 View Post
Guys, as I read your replys, I'm both laughing, and thinking your looking too deep into this. My wife is fine with cars and my passion for them. What she's not cool with is how I treat my Mustang like she's the other woman in my life. Anywho, it seems like performance cams might be a bit more work than it's worth.
Then exactly how are you treating your car!? lol

She should know that this is a hobby, nothing more. I could never survive with a woman who does not allow me my toys. I am responsible enough myself to make sure the kids and the wife have appropriate transportation, once that is done, I do me.


As far as your cams the aftermarket has never been kind to the 4.0. Quite frankly the aftermarket has been kinder to the 3.8 series (3.8/3.9/4.2) than the 4.0. The popularity was never there to make real upgrades worth it to the companies that make them.
__________________
Sig-less for weight reduction
NUTCASE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2017, 10:04 AM   #15
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
Well I am glad to hear I am wrong. I think a turbo or a supercharger would do more for you, but that probably requires internal mods.
If one were to go the forced induction route, is there any way to increase the engine's oil capacity? The 4.0 only holds 5 quarts of oil, and even with an external cooler, I have to imagine that's still a rather limiting factor. Are there any deep oil pans for the engine like there is for the transmission?
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2017, 11:35 AM   #16
NUTCASE
forum member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,615
iTrader: 14 / 100%
NUTCASE is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I don't see the oiling system as a liming factor. I just don't see how you could run enough oil line to make it a big deal.

I would stick the turbo on there first then monitor oil temps. If oil temps are a problem the 4.0 takes the same oil filter as the 4.6 so the same adapter should fit and you can run an oil cooler.
__________________
Sig-less for weight reduction
NUTCASE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2017, 11:55 AM   #17
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTCASE View Post
I don't see the oiling system as a liming factor. I just don't see how you could run enough oil line to make it a big deal.

I would stick the turbo on there first then monitor oil temps. If oil temps are a problem the 4.0 takes the same oil filter as the 4.6 so the same adapter should fit and you can run an oil cooler.
Sorry, I should have clarified it more. What I meant by the oil being a limiting factor and the Transmission Fluid as well for an automatic, was the fluids heating up at a much quicker rate. Increasing the amount of oil and tranny fluid would aid in keeping it cooler. But I can find any larger capacity engine oil pans for the 4.0, only transmission pans.

Would adding an external oil cooler allow for more oil to run through the system, and if so, roughly by how much?
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2017, 12:03 PM   #18
tjm73
of Omicron Persei 8
 
tjm73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 7,599
iTrader: 2 / 100%
tjm73 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

You could add about a quart of oil to the system total with a double remote filter mount.

If you got really creative you could add close to 4 quarts with the double mount. If you cut in a double mount for the traditional FL1A but used a different Ford filter for HD trucks which is a FL1A double tall. I forget it's number however.
__________________
he he hehe he he hehe he he he he hehehehe


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
tjm73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2017, 12:09 PM   #19
Benwhite911
V6'ing & Dealing With It
 
Benwhite911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Boston, & Surrounding Area
Posts: 123
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Benwhite911 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjm73 View Post
You could add about a quart of oil to the system total with a double remote filter mount.

If you got really creative you could add close to 4 quarts with the double mount. If you cut in a double mount for the traditional FL1A but used a different Ford filter for HD trucks which is a FL1A double tall. I forget it's number however.
Sorry, I know my question will seem a little green, but I do need to ask. I know what a filter re locator is. However, what is a double remote filter mount?
Benwhite911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2017, 07:29 AM   #20
tjm73
of Omicron Persei 8
 
tjm73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 7,599
iTrader: 2 / 100%
tjm73 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Ha. No worries. The remote mount that holds one filter is available to hold two filters.
__________________
he he hehe he he hehe he he he he hehehehe


“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
tjm73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Ad Management plugin by RedTyger