Suspension Advice needed, 2013 GT

ATRAIS1

Junior Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Posts
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Chicago, IL
Hey all, looking for some suspension advice for my 2013 GT. Stock suspension frankly rides like crap, very bouncy with the stock Track Pack suspension. Handles great, just rides bad and actually rolls a bit more than I’d like in the corners. I recently obtained a set of Steeda Sport springs but I don’t want to slap those on with the stock struts necessarily. I think I’m going to save up for a set of either Bilstein Monotubes or Koni Yellows to go on with the springs. Also planning on getting either Maximum Motorsports or J&M Caster/Camber plates. I’ve already got the following:

BMR Adjustable LCA’s

BMR Adjustable UCA/Mount

BMR Adjustable Panhard Bar

Ford Racing 1pc Driveshaft

Here’s my question: When I do the lowering springs, is EVERYTHING going to have to be re-adjusted (in addition to the normal alignment stuff) to get it right? If so, who can do the adjustments? I got all the “adjustable” parts to make sure that the option was there, but I admit I have no clue how to go about setting things like pinion angle and whatnot, or if the LCA’s and Panhard Bar will need adjustment when the car is finally lowered. I'm assuming I'd need like a custom alignment shop for something like that, right? Also anyone have experience with the change (good or bad) in ride quality after changing struts/shocks/springs on the S197? Really hoping ot get rid of the pogo effect I seem to be experiencing.
 

stevbd

forum member
Joined
Jun 24, 2016
Posts
151
Reaction score
26
I don't know about your alignment questions, but good quality dampers literally transform this car. It is SO MUCH more settled. The car is very, very underdamped from the factory. That white knuckle bouncing into the other lane feeling will be dramatically reduced. I'm using the Bilsteins but there are other options, of course.

Good luck!
 

stevbd

forum member
Joined
Jun 24, 2016
Posts
151
Reaction score
26
I should have added, my personal feeling is that sometimes people focus too much on lowering springs and not enough on dampers, but that's just my opinion. Regardless, good dampers are a game changer.
 

kcbrown

forum member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Posts
654
Reaction score
5
Make one change at a time. Start with dampers (I'd go with Koni Yellows or Bilsteins. Either will serve you well). You will be impressed with how well the stock Track Pack handles with decent dampers and no other changes. Then, after you've explored that, change the rear sway bar to something stiffer (preferably adjustable). Watch how the responsiveness improves dramatically (though it'll have a somewhat greater tendency to oversteer).

The latter is basically where I am now, although I replaced my springs with Boss 302 springs (standard in front, Laguna Seca in the rear, because I'm running a square setup and wanted the slightly stiffer front to get roughly the same balance as the Laguna Seca) at the same time I switched to the 26mm Laguna Seca rear sway bar, so it's possible that the responsiveness I'm seeing is at least in part the result of the springs. The difference in rates between the Track Pack springs and the springs I have now isn't so massive as to make me think they changed the car all that much. I will say my dampers seem to like them better than the original springs, however.

This combination has been so fun to drive and so well balanced that I've had no temptation to make further suspension changes for quite a long time, and still don't (I did end up going with G-Loc R12 brake pads recently because I'm now braking aggressively enough to fade the Stoptech pads I was previously using).

You don't have to do things the way I did at all of course, but changing only one thing at a time is key to figuring out what really works for you and what doesn't. And I can't reiterate enough what was already said: dampers make a MASSIVE difference in the way the car handles and rides.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

kerrynzl

forum member
Joined
May 31, 2017
Posts
116
Reaction score
19
Location
Tauranga, New Zealand
I think I’m going to save up for a set of either Bilstein Monotubes or Koni Yellows to go on with the springs.

Really hoping ot get rid of the pogo effect I seem to be experiencing.

To get rid of that Pogo effect, you need to increase the Frequency of the springs [cycles per second], And the way to do that is with stiffer rating and a lower spring load. [ Translated = Higher lbs/in but shorter static height ]

If you drove your "grocery getter" around a road racing circuit at 30 mph you would wonder why suspension is even needed, but crank that up to 100+ mph and a bump that you didn't even notice before will start to bottom out the suspension etc.

The faster you go, the faster the wheels travel up and down over bumps [higher frequency] ,so stiffer springs are needed.

If you simply "upped the valving" on a set of shocks, it would simply slow down the frequency on rebound [or droop] and the tyres would have a tendency to skip over the tops of bumps.

The shocks should be matched to the springs, so unless you have a crystal ball you should choose the correct springs first.


"I will add, people focus too much on shocks and not enough on correct stiffness springs. Probably because the correct spring choice requires an intelligent decision, whereas shock choice only needs a pseudo expert "counter jockey" to ask for your credit card number based on their biased recommendation.
Regardless, the correct springs are the real game changer."

Please don't confuse spring stiffness with roll stiffness. On a slow track the frequency can be less, but the "G'" forces on a corner will still be the same. Usually with softer springs you need to add more "Bar". [on fast tracks you use less bar and stiffer springs]

Now on the subject of Koni's vs Bilsteins [they are both good shocks]
The Koni "twin tube" is more resilient to damage from rocks etc, but the Billy's don't lose as much dampening effect when they get hot.
Bilsteins being a monotube shock have a larger piston area, and a floating piston to keep the oil and the gas separated [they don't aerate the oil and lose dampening]

Monotube shocks are superior for racing. Koni also makes monotube shocks, but these Koni Yellows are twin tube


I'd go with the Bilstein monotubes
 
Last edited:

GT Premi

Back from hiatus!
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Posts
4
Reaction score
0
...

Here’s my question: When I do the lowering springs, is EVERYTHING going to have to be re-adjusted (in addition to the normal alignment stuff) to get it right? If so, who can do the adjustments? I got all the “adjustable” parts to make sure that the option was there, but I admit I have no clue how to go about setting things like pinion angle and whatnot, or if the LCA’s and Panhard Bar will need adjustment when the car is finally lowered. I'm assuming I'd need like a custom alignment shop for something like that, right? Also anyone have experience with the change (good or bad) in ride quality after changing struts/shocks/springs on the S197? Really hoping ot get rid of the pogo effect I seem to be experiencing.

Your pinion angle may need to be adjusted. If your new driveshaft has a CV joint at the axle end, the pinion angle might not have to be addressed. If you're going to lower the car, you need to browse back over to BMR's site and order their LCA relocation brackets. You will need them, otherwise your LCAs will be angled up toward the rear of the car, which is not what you want. If the springs drop the rear more than 1", the panhard bar will need to be adjusted to recenter the body over the axle. You can do that adjustment yourself.

The suspension on my GT500 is 100% aftermarket from front to back. It handles WAY better than stock, and there is very little penalty in ride quality. It rides like a German car; think BMW M, Mercedes AMG, et. al. To be honest, it still might not be as stiff as those cars. So you needn't worry about ride quality, unless you plan on slamming it to the ground. For reference, I have Eibach Pro Kit springs and dampers. In my opinion, they're still too compliant. Even with everything I've done to the suspension, it still has the pogo stick characteristic over harsh bumps at speed, just not nearly as bad as stock. I'm considering ditching the Eibach progressive rate springs for some constant rate springs. I might go with the Ford Racing springs because, I believe, they're constant rate. It's either that or swap out the dampers for some adjustable ones so I can tune out the excess rebound in the rear and early/easy compression in the front.
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Posts
3,615
Reaction score
316
Location
RIP - You will be missed
As long as you're staying with the OE-style "big springs", the practical side of the spring-priority vs damper-priority matter for the S197 has to consider the limited choices available.

While it's true that quite a few mfrs offer springs, the rates for most of them fall into a rather narrow range that doesn't reach up all that much stiffer than OE (compared to the range that's available in coilover springs). IOW, twice as stiff as too-soft still isn't all that stiff on an absolute scale (might be something like 1.5 Hz vs 1.1 Hz). That might be a good enough place for a car that's expected to pull dual duty, street + track, and I think the high end gives wheel rates that are similar to the current GT350/350R wheel rates.


Norm
 

stevbd

forum member
Joined
Jun 24, 2016
Posts
151
Reaction score
26
Regarding springs vs. dampers, OP was asking about getting rid of the "pogo" effect. I don't know exactly what was meant by that, but in my mind I was thinking of the situation where you hit a bump and get 2 or 3 up and down suspension movements instead of one. That is bad underdamping, and it is what the car has stock. On our cars it is made worse by the fact that the shocks have to control, or damp, something like 300 pounds of unsprung wheel and axle weight in the back.

Alternatively, we've all seen a pogo affect with lowering springs that are too stiff and low for the application, usually, again, combined with crappy dampers.

Either way, it seems to me the usual mistake is people cheaping out on the dampers for one reason or another. Often this seems to be because for $200 you can get aftermarket springs which give a cool stance, while a good set of Bilsteins is $800 and no one notices except the driver.

Also, OP, google digressive valving if you haven't already.
 

kcbrown

forum member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Posts
654
Reaction score
5
To get rid of that Pogo effect, you need to increase the Frequency of the springs [cycles per second], And the way to do that is with stiffer rating and a lower spring load. [ Translated = Higher lbs/in but shorter static height ]

If the "pogo effect" he refers to is bounciness of the suspension, then it means it's underdamped.


If you drove your "grocery getter" around a road racing circuit at 30 mph you would wonder why suspension is even needed, but crank that up to 100+ mph and a bump that you didn't even notice before will start to bottom out the suspension etc.

A quick succession of such bumps could cause the suspension to bottom in that manner, I suppose, but a single bump will not unless there is insufficient travel to absorb it. An increase in spring rate will prevent the suspension from bottoming, of course, but it will also (if set too high) prevent the suspension from properly absorbing the bump in the first place, and cause greater force to be transmitted through to the cabin and to the tires (Newton's Law). But a change of force to the tires changes the grip of the tires, which is what you do not want if you're after predictable handling.

You're absolutely right that the proper spring rate is critical. The main issue is that you don't get a variable spring rate that depends on the characteristics of the bump as seen by the car (well, actually, you do to some extent since the dampers factor into this, but the dampers cannot reduce the compression forces of the spring and cannot increase the rebound forces either), so you end up having to compromise, to find a spring rate that is optimized for the most common case under the circumstances the car is subject to.


The faster you go, the faster the wheels travel up and down over bumps [higher frequency] ,so stiffer springs are needed.

This is true, but note that there is no difference between a wider bump at higher speed and a narrower bump at lower speed, if the bump height is the same for both. The suspension can't tell the difference.

Even so, what you say here is most certainly true, but chances are this isn't what the OP is running into.


If you simply "upped the valving" on a set of shocks, it would simply slow down the frequency on rebound [or droop] and the tyres would have a tendency to skip over the tops of bumps.

If they're overdamped at that point, yes.


The shocks should be matched to the springs, so unless you have a crystal ball you should choose the correct springs first.

Exactly right. But note that "correct springs" depend on the application. There is a massive difference between a dual-duty (street + noncompetitive track) car and a single-purpose competitive track car. For the latter, you can optimize the spring rates to accommodate the demands of the track. The former requires that you compromise even more than you're already compromising with a track-only car. That makes the choice a more difficult one in the former case, because you then end up having to decide where that compromise point should be, and that is very much a matter of preference.

For instance, I'm on what amounts to stock springs, and yet have found that my car behaves very nicely on the track. But then, I'm on street tires as well. My car is both a daily driver and a track toy for me, and obviously the "daily driver" role dominates in terms of total seat time. That doesn't prevent the car from handling the track surprisingly well.


While the bumps that one does encounter on the track are encountered at higher speed than what a street car sees on the street, most tracks are significantly smoother than most streets, which is why you can get away with substantially stiffer springs on the track.


Now on the subject of Koni's vs Bilsteins [they are both good shocks]
The Koni "twin tube" is more resilient to damage from rocks etc, but the Billy's don't lose as much dampening effect when they get hot.

What I wonder is how much of a real difference there is in practice, particularly when one is on springs with roughly stock rate (which will be essentially all springs that one would pair the Konis or the Bilsteins with). I'd argue that the street is a much stronger workout for the dampers than most tracks, because most tracks are relatively smooth while many streets are just terrible, and the suspension is moving around a lot more, and exercising the dampers a lot more, when driving down a typical street than it is when driving on the track.


Bilsteins being a monotube shock have a larger piston area, and a floating piston to keep the oil and the gas separated [they don't aerate the oil and lose dampening]

All other things being equal, yes. My understanding is that Koni uses a type of oil that is highly resistant to aeration, so while it may still be subject to that, it apparently isn't to the degree that one might otherwise expect.

Frankly, I know of no objective head to head comparison between these dampers. And that's a shame, because it would be very useful to some to know how much of a difference there really is between them when all is said and done.


Monotube shocks are superior for racing. Koni also makes monotube shocks, but these Koni Yellows are twin tube


I'd go with the Bilstein monotubes

The only major reason to go with the Konis over the Bilsteins is for the adjustability. But that is not an insignificant difference. The adjustability of the Konis means you can exactly (or nearly so) match its rebound to the springs (but note that you'll need to get your dampers dynoed for this to work -- you'll be doing it "by feel" otherwise, which may work out nicely if you know what you're doing), while the Bilsteins will merely be "in the ballpark" so to speak. Being "in the ballpark" might be sufficient, and indeed almost certainly is for most people. But the major advantage to the Konis is that you can tune the front versus rear transition characteristics of the car to your liking. This won't have any effect on mid-corner behavior but can substantially effect corner entry and exit. With the Bilsteins, you get what you get and that's that.

As you say, they're both good, so it ultimately comes down to a matter of preference. I've been immensely satisfied with my Konis, for what little that may be worth. As someone who drives his car daily and on the track, they've served me extremely well over the past three years.



In any case, given the OP's complaints, I stand by my original recommendation: change the dampers first, and only the dampers. Then determine if that's sufficient. If it's not, then determine how it's not sufficient and make the next (single) change on that basis. Lather, rinse, repeat until you get what you want.
 
Last edited:

kerrynzl

forum member
Joined
May 31, 2017
Posts
116
Reaction score
19
Location
Tauranga, New Zealand
If the "pogo effect" he refers to is bounciness of the suspension, then it means it's underdamped.


All other things being equal, yes. My understanding is that Koni uses a type of oil that is highly resistant to aeration, so while it may still be subject to that, it apparently isn't to the degree that one might otherwise expect.

Frankly, I know of no objective head to head comparison between these dampers. And that's a shame, because it would be very useful to some to know how much of a difference there really is between them when all is said and done.




The only major reason to go with the Konis over the Bilsteins is for the adjustability. But that is not an insignificant difference. The adjustability of the Konis means you can exactly (or nearly so) match its rebound to the springs (but note that you'll need to get your dampers dynoed for this to work -- you'll be doing it "by feel" otherwise, which may work out nicely if you know what you're doing), while the Bilsteins will merely be "in the ballpark" so to speak. Being "in the ballpark" might be sufficient, and indeed almost certainly is for most people. But the major advantage to the Konis is that you can tune the front versus rear transition characteristics of the car to your liking. This won't have any effect on mid-corner behavior but can substantially effect corner entry and exit. With the Bilsteins, you get what you get and that's that.

As you say, they're both good, so it ultimately comes down to a matter of preference. I've been immensely satisfied with my Konis, for what little that may be worth. As someone who drives his car daily and on the track, they've served me extremely well over the past three years.

The Pogo effect is when the cycles per second is too slow [usually because the "Sprung" weight is too much.
I've seen this on too many occasions when there is an engine swap to a heavier engine [sometimes they simply reset the ride height, but the stiffness is not enough]
A lot of pickups have this problem when trailering, and the fix is an equalizer hitch [basically adding more spring stiffness down the spine of the frame]
Having a low frequency suspension is great if you drive an Eldorado, but get it up to speed and it will start to pogo.

This can be debated forever [like arguing over religion] but we all agree that springs and shocks should be "bed partners"
I've observed better results from Just spring changes vs just shock changes.


Back to the shock debate. Firstly I have personally dismantled both Konis and Bilsteins and played with both on a shock dyno.
When I said they are both good shocks , I can't fault the quality.

Monotubes are a better design, and Bilstein held the patent rights. [now in the public domain, so manufacturers can legally copy the design]

Just about all Rally Cars, Off Roaders, Moto-X , Formula cars use monotube shocks.
All shocks need a gas cavity in them to take up hydraulic displacement of the shaft [or they will burst]
With a monotube they use a floating piston and a separate chamber with a gas charge [this can be remote]
The main piston on the shaft has a 2-way valve.

On a twin tube ,there is a inner tube that is the bore and the outer tube is oil reservoir [so there is smaller piston area]
At the base of the centre tube is a one-way "foot valve" that allows oil to flow into the bore on shock extension. The piston is a one-way valve that allows oil to flow on compression.
So during cycles the oil circulates up the centre tube and down the outer tube [aerating the oil]

When I was playing with shocks [I worked for a manufacturer] we even played with using a sealed plastic bag filled with gas to take up displacement with great results.
A twin tube could be run upside down or on its side [eg: steering damper]. But a twin tube shock never had the performance results of a monotube
 

kcbrown

forum member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Posts
654
Reaction score
5
The Pogo effect is when the cycles per second is too slow [usually because the "Sprung" weight is too much.
I've seen this on too many occasions when there is an engine swap to a heavier engine [sometimes they simply reset the ride height, but the stiffness is not enough]
A lot of pickups have this problem when trailering, and the fix is an equalizer hitch [basically adding more spring stiffness down the spine of the frame]
Having a low frequency suspension is great if you drive an Eldorado, but get it up to speed and it will start to pogo.

But here we're talking about a car which is exhibiting this effect on stock springs and which isn't carrying any additional weight over that of the original design. I have the same car as the OP, but one year later. It was certainly underdamped, and one way I could feel it was as a reverberation in the steering wheel when the suspension went over sharp bumps.

I don't get anything like the effect the OP is talking about with the Konis on the car, and I know I have the rebound set correctly to match my springs because I dynoed the dampers and know the wheel rates.

It would be useful to know from the OP whether he's talking about seeing that effect while driving on the street or if it's only on the track.


If the issue is on the track, where the necessary frequencies involved are at least double those on the street, then the OP will need four times the spring rate in order to properly deal with that. He'll need coilovers for sure under those conditions.


This can be debated forever [like arguing over religion] but we all agree that springs and shocks should be "bed partners"
I've observed better results from Just spring changes vs just shock changes.

I can't comment on this because I don't know if the shock change situations you experienced were ones where you started off in an underdamped condition.


Back to the shock debate. Firstly I have personally dismantled both Konis and Bilsteins and played with both on a shock dyno.
When I said they are both good shocks , I can't fault the quality.

Monotubes are a better design, and Bilstein held the patent rights. [now in the public domain, so manufacturers can legally copy the design]

Just about all Rally Cars, Off Roaders, Moto-X , Formula cars use monotube shocks.

Yes this is certainly true. I don't disagree with you with respect to the fundamental characteristics of monotube versus twin-tube, all else being equal. But as I mentioned, I believe Koni uses an oil that is particularly resistant to aeration, and this helps to keep the disadvantages under control.

But note that it only helps. Monotubes are the only way to go when you get to higher spring rates, where the energy that has to be dissipated by the damper is much higher than it is when one is on stock-ish springs.


If the OP goes with substantially stiffer springs than stock (and by "substantially", I mean in the 400 lb/in range or more), then monotubes will be the way to go. But at that point, we're talking coilovers anyway.


When I was playing with shocks [I worked for a manufacturer] we even played with using a sealed plastic bag filled with gas to take up displacement with great results.
A twin tube could be run upside down or on its side [eg: steering damper]. But a twin tube shock never had the performance results of a monotube

I don't doubt this for a second. But if the OP stays on stock-ish springs, the question is going to be whether or not the difference between the two really matters. Like I said, I know of no objective comparison between the two when installed with stock-ish springs, something that's sorely missing. It wouldn't be a "religious" debate at all if we had real data to work with. Absent that, all we can ask is whether or not anyone has seen any damping issues with the Konis under track conditions. I've not seen any such reports anywhere despite the fact that the Konis are quite popular. Either it's very difficult to tell when it's happening, or it doesn't happen enough to matter.

If the OP goes with substantially stiffer springs than stock, all that changes, and he'll really want to get quality monotube dampers to get good performance and good ride out of them. It'll set him back considerably more, but that may be worth it to him.

I don't know how much track driving experience the OP has. But I've found the car with stock-ish springs and good dampers (I've got Konis but I have no reason at all to believe that the Bilsteins wouldn't work at least as well) to be a truly excellent platform to learn high performance driving with, and to be impressively capable in its own right. If I had to choose whether to spend the extra that coilovers demand over and above a set of Koni Sports on track time or to spend it on the coilovers, I'd spend it on track time without hesitation.


There's an additional caveat in all this: the tires. If one sticks with street tires, then the stock suspension will work well enough, particularly for learning. But once you're on slicks, you'll need a bunch of additional wheel rate (from both sway bars and springs) just to keep the camber under control. But at that point, we're surely no longer talking about an inexperienced driver.
 

Senna1

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Posts
33
Reaction score
0
Location
DC Metro
I don't doubt this for a second. But if the OP stays on stock-ish springs, the question is going to be whether or not the difference between the two really matters. Like I said, I know of no objective comparison between the two when installed with stock-ish springs, something that's sorely missing. It wouldn't be a "religious" debate at all if we had real data to work with.
Depends what you mean by "matters". Having looked at your Koni & OE plots, as well as the Bilstein HD AFV plots, two things are clear:
-Either is capable of adequately damping any of the typical "big spring" S197 lowering springs.
-The rebound damping characteristics are quite different between Koni and Bilstein; Bilsteins are considerably more digressive at higher shaft velocities.

So, I'd think it "matters" in the sense that two cars otherwise identically set up are going to feel quite different w/ Koni vs. Bilsteins. It probably doesn't matter in the sense that either could be set up to not be grossly under- or over- damped for track use.
 

2013DIBGT

I Hate Wheelhop
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Posts
333
Reaction score
1
Location
The Ungreat North East
Then, after you've explored that, change the rear sway bar to something stiffer (preferably adjustable). Watch how the responsiveness improves dramatically (though it'll have a somewhat greater tendency to oversteer).

I'm not so sure automatically advising someone to go to a stiffer rear bar is the best advice. Some prefer the feel of the car with as little Rear bar as possible while using an adjustable Front Bar instead.

I can say for certain in my own case that my car didn't feel right at all when using the factory rear bar. It wasn't until I dropped all the way down to an 18mm Rear bar in combo with the adjustable Eibach Front unit that things started to feel right to me. I would even go as far as to say that the Watson Racing 12mm Rear bar would probably be even better still, at least in my case but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

I prefer to use stiffer rear springs in combo with rear shock tuning (ideally Double Adjustables all around) to take care of most of the heavy lifting. Whatever "feel" adjustment is needed after that I leave up to the small Rear bar.

I like the ass end of the car to feel as dead as possible almost just dragging itself along for the ride. :insane:

Just another viewpoint to consider
 

kcbrown

forum member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Posts
654
Reaction score
5
I'm not so sure automatically advising someone to go to a stiffer rear bar is the best advice. Some prefer the feel of the car with as little Rear bar as possible while using an adjustable Front Bar instead.

This is true, of course. I can only go by my own experience here. I know from experience that an increase from 24mm to 26mm in the rear bar results in a dramatic improvement in the responsiveness of the car (the increase in spring rates, from 136 lb/in to 148 lb/in in front and from 167 lb/in to 191 lb/in in the rear, are not large enough to have such a dramatic effect). But I cannot say whether increasing the front bar by an equivalent amount would have the same effect, particularly since the front bar is already so much larger than the rear one.


I can say for certain in my own case that my car didn't feel right at all when using the factory rear bar. It wasn't until I dropped all the way down to an 18mm Rear bar in combo with the adjustable Eibach Front unit that things started to feel right to me. I would even go as far as to say that the Watson Racing 12mm Rear bar would probably be even better still, at least in my case but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

It's certainly a matter of preference, and I guess some people prefer more understeer and some prefer more oversteer. I tend to prefer a slight tendency to oversteer except under maintenance throttle, where I prefer neutral handling. The setup I have now gives me that under most conditions (I do get a bit of mid-corner oversteer under certain smaller radius extended corners, such as turn 11 at Sears).


I prefer to use stiffer rear springs in combo with rear shock tuning (ideally Double Adjustables all around) to take care of most of the heavy lifting. Whatever "feel" adjustment is needed after that I leave up to the small Rear bar.

I like the ass end of the car to feel as dead as possible almost just dragging itself along for the ride. :insane:

Just another viewpoint to consider

And a valid viewpoint at that! It really is just a matter of preference.

For the OP, assuming he isn't already experienced on the track, my recommendation remains to change one thing at a time. That means keeping the car's balance as it is to start with, to see how one likes it. I found the car to be decently neutral all in all with the stock setup, but as I gained experience and, especially, the ability to manage the car when the rear comes out, I found that I wanted to be able to induce oversteer more easily, most especially in lift throttle situations. I took the route I did primarily because I was curious what all the fuss was about with the Boss 302's handling, and it was dirt cheap to make the change (I had already put Koni Sport dampers on the car at that point). The change made a dramatic difference, taking the car from one where I was able to easily see the delay in the car taking a set when chucking it into corners (something I hadn't detected until relatively late because my steering inputs were almost always very smooth) to one where I can't detect it at all. But the balance change is what I like the most. Inducing oversteer is now very easy, and in most corners, the car is very neutral mid-corner. It is incredibly easy to use the throttle (whether by adding power or by lifting) to point the car. I like it so much that I don't anticipate changing it at all.

If experimenting with balance is what one wishes to do, I guess I'd actually recommend adjustable front and rear bars. But in my opinion, dampers have to come first.
 

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top