FRPP M-18000-C vs Koni yellows ?

Pentalab

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The FRPP adjustable dampers are monotube types. They appear to be a tweaked version of a Tokico D spec, designed slightly differently, with a different adjustment tool. FRPP has simultaneous adjustment of compression + rebound. The Koni yellow's are adjustable rebound only..and twin tube. I have no experience with either, and don't know anyone who has used the FRPP product. What's the consensus ?
 

Sky Render

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A lot of people I've talked to seem to dislike the Tokico shocks, both in terms of performance and reliability/longevity. I personally have no experience with them.
 

DevGittinJr

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The FRPP adjustable dampers are monotube types.

False.

They appear to be a tweaked version of a Tokico D spec, designed slightly differently, with a different adjustment tool.

They are spec'd by Multimatic and built by Tokico for Ford Racing - says so right on the shocks.

The FRPP dampers have OE length housings, which isn't good on a lowered car. FWIW, I had the FRPP adj dampers and K springs. I now have H&R RSS c/o's which are mono-tube with shortened housings. They have over twice the spring rate and a much better ride quality.
 
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DevGittinJr

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So they are substantially different than the standard D-spec sold by Steeda?

I doubt it. I'd bet the only real difference is probably valving. Also, the FRPP's had no "clicks" in the adjustment, but rather a continuous range of eight full turns. Not sure about d-spec's.
 

Pentalab

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Every dealer I contacted sez the FRPP M-18000-C adjustable shocks are mono tube..front + rear...go figure. If the bellows type rubber covers were removed from the front struts, we would know at a glance. The mono tubes have bigger diam pistons.

Both the FRPP + Koni yellow use OE length housings.... so they both have the same issues with lowered vehicles. I'm 1/2" down on the front...and 1" on the rear...using roush springs.

BTW, a year ago, I busted the pass side roush strut clean in half... backing out of my driveway. "temp" replaced with oem struts...as I needed the car on the road asap. Turns out the Roush struts + shocks are mono tube. Roush struts are 1/2" lower than oem struts. IE: the roush spring perchs are 1/2" lower than oem. Roush front springs provide for a 1/2" drop....and the roush struts provide for another 1/2" drop.

I'm happy with the 1/2" front drop, I have a bit more clearance. Losing 1/2" of piston travel with FRPP / yellows is probably not an issue..at least on the front. The 1" rear drop may well be an issue.

Another option is the Vorshlag Bilsteins, non adjustable, but at least they are optimized for lowering springs....so you don't lose any piston travel at all.
 

Voltwings

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Well, neither of these i'd consider much of an upgrade ... Bilstein or bust.
 

Pentalab

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Is the Vorshlag kit any good? This is what I have planned on buying for my 05.

https://vorshlag-store.com/collecti...treetpro-monotube-suspension-kit-s197-mustang

It's supposed to be the bomb. Note the light blue BTS springs depicted, are no longer made, hence are not on the Vorshlag drop down box. The black BTS springs as seen on everybody else's site will not work. Regular Bilstein struts + shocks won't work since they are oem length. BMR GT-500 springs would also work, with a 1/2" front drop and 1" rear drop.

I'd be tempted to go the Vorshlag route with their street pro kit, if I knew it wouldn't be too stiff on some of our local shit roads..which I doubt. The shortened roush struts + roush springs I had on were fine on smooth roads, but started to get tedious on lousy roads around town.... like driving around man-hole covers. Speed bumps, forget it, 1 mph or less. But I did get 5 years out of them before one snapped off. Metal fatigue caught up to them.

At least with adjustables, they can be tweaked, but they appear to all be oem length, at least the yellows. It's always a compromise.
 

stevbd

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I have the Vorshlag kit paired with the FRPP P springs. Squat, dive, and roll were all dramatically reduced compared to OEM, and the rear axle is far, far more planted over rough road surfaces.

In terms of ride, it's typical Bilstein. Because of the digressive valving, low speed shock movements like when the car is leaning, squatting, or hitting a speed bump are firm. On high speed shock movements, though, like hitting a pothole or bridge expansion joint, the internal valving blows off somewhat, so the shock doesn't get way stiffer like it would otherwise. The effect of all this is that the ride feels firm but not harsh over sharp impacts.

Complaints: 1) On track, I would like more roll stiffness, this should be seen as a daily driver / HPDE compromise setup. 2) On bumpy roads, the springs still feel slightly underdamped to me, it feels like it could still use a little firmer high speed shock damping. (You still get the occasional 2 suspension movements instead of one over quick sharp bumps in quick succession. It might be a function of the digressive valving, I'm not sure. Lower speed impacts are nice and controlled.) 3) Visually, the car sits a little high for my taste. With my downsized 18" rims, there is some fender gap. I know we aren't supposed to care about such things in this section, but there it is.

For context, I use the car for HPDE days and year round commuting in New England and this setup fits the bill. If you are doing more of an extreme performance or dedicated track day car, I would lean towards coilovers.
 

djclark

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I've been running the Vorshlag StreetPro kit w/ K springs for a 1yr+ ( approaching 2 ). The car is a daily driver and I drive 60 miles to/from work. So the kit has had some miles on it - no complaints. It's everything everyone above says, awesome ride, great handling. Well worth the $$$.
 

Pentalab

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I have the Vorshlag kit paired with the FRPP P springs. Squat, dive, and roll were all dramatically reduced compared to OEM, and the rear axle is far, far more planted over rough road surfaces.

In terms of ride, it's typical Bilstein. Because of the digressive valving, low speed shock movements like when the car is leaning, squatting, or hitting a speed bump are firm. On high speed shock movements, though, like hitting a pothole or bridge expansion joint, the internal valving blows off somewhat, so the shock doesn't get way stiffer like it would otherwise. The effect of all this is that the ride feels firm but not harsh over sharp impacts.

Complaints: 1) On track, I would like more roll stiffness, this should be seen as a daily driver / HPDE compromise setup. 2) On bumpy roads, the springs still feel slightly underdamped to me, it feels like it could still use a little firmer high speed shock damping. (You still get the occasional 2 suspension movements instead of one over quick sharp bumps in quick succession. It might be a function of the digressive valving, I'm not sure. Lower speed impacts are nice and controlled.) 3) Visually, the car sits a little high for my taste. With my downsized 18" rims, there is some fender gap. I know we aren't supposed to care about such things in this section, but there it is.

For context, I use the car for HPDE days and year round commuting in New England and this setup fits the bill. If you are doing more of an extreme performance or dedicated track day car, I would lean towards coilovers.

Good evaluation..and tnx for the input, points well taken. BTW, how much front /rear drop did you see with the P springs ?
 

Tri-bar

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I'm using Bilstien HD's with MM road and track springs right now. Stiffer than the P and K springs by a bit. I DD mine everyday. Track tested and runs well, 2.02 at Buttonwillow with that set up. Just a tad slower than my Coil over set up that needs rebuilding atm.
 

stevbd

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Pentalab, thanks, hope it was helpful. I didn't measure but I've seen it reported the P springs lower the front about 1/2" and the rear about 1". The car now sits level. The fender gap is about equal all the way around the circumference of the fender. I think with 19's it would look fantastic. But the car would be a little slower!

Vorshlag has a ride along video for this setup that is kind of helpful to get a sense of it.
 

kerrynzl

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Has any body here actually asked what the spring rate is on these kits?

Of do you just go with the recommendation of the "sales counter jockey"
 

kerrynzl

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Kerry, here is a start on some of the common springs, post 5:

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127549

Hey thanks for that!
I wasn't actually aiming the question to get any rates but to potential "corner carvers" that should be actually asking these questions.

After having a "nosebag" through that list , I am surprised how soft the Ford front suspension really is.
The Front is softer than the Rear with the rear having a 1:1 motion ratio

You can refer back to my comments about the POGO effect.

From my "young and bulletproof" days, we use to run cars on the street much stiffer than most of those [macpherson struts that is]

I have found "too stiff" to be less detrimental to road manners than "too much camber"

I would be quite happy with 350lb/in fronts and 210lb/in rears in a streetable road-racer [then tune it ARB an RARB]
 

Voltwings

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Have you actually tested all three?

The FRPP yes, and they were good not great. I however got them for $400, so if my opinion of them is "good not great" at basically half their retail cost i feel i'm allowed to make that statement.

The Bilsteins are what i have my eyes on next after research and talking with others who have run them.

I would also like to hear the defence of Koni yellows from an actual performance vs dollar standpoint... Having seen shock dynos, i am not impressed with the lack of consistency they displayed.
 
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