Sky Render's Build Thread

Pentalab said:

I have 275-40-18's on the front of my 2010. With Roush springs + oem struts, its 1/2" lower. (With roush springs + roush struts it was 1" lower, busted a strut, and replaced both struts with oem struts).

Looking at your pix (and u are also using 275-40-18) I'd say you have way less than 1/2" drop...looks like stock ride height to my eye. I have less tire to top of wheel well gap..and that's with only a 1/2" drop. What is your distance from ground to wheel well arch ?

So sky render may well be better off with K springs...which are also a little stiffer vs P springs...both front + rear. Even then, with the Vorshlag kit, + K springs, he might be looking at 1/2" - 3/4" drop tops. Jason may well have the answer.

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It's 28" from the ground to the wheel well arch, and 15 1/2" from the wheel well arch to the center of the wheel. That first number is going to vary somewhat depending on what size wheels and tires you use. Same measurements front and rear, the car sits level.

The car definitely is lower than stock (non-Brembo 2011 GT) but you are right, not by a lot.

I suspect Bilsteins tend to raise the ride height a little due to being high pressure charged. I know dampers aren't supposed to affect ride height, but there are a lot of anecdotal reports of this.

EDIT: Concerning the P vs. K I think Ford reports the P lower 1" and the K 1.5". The P reportedly are a little stiffer in the front and softer in the rear compared to the K, although consistent spring rates are hard to come by.

I found this a few years back FWIW

Mustang GT (2011+) Stock: Ft 122 lbs./in Rr 154 lbs./in * Source, Maximum Motorsports
Brembo Stock: Ft 131 lbs. /in. Rr 167 lbs./in
Boss Stock: Ft 148 lbs./in. Rr 185 lbs./in
Boss LS Stock: Ft 137 lbs./in. Rr 191 lbs./in
Eibach Pro-Kit: Ft 159 lbs./in Rr 193 lbs./in * Source, Maximum Motorsports
FRPP K Springs: Ft. 188 lbs./in Rr 221 lbs./in *Vorshlag Tested
FRPP P Springs: Ft. 204 lbs./in Rr. 165 lbs./in *Vorshlag Tested
Steeda Competition: Ft 225 lbs./in. Rr 185 lbs./in
Steeda Sports: Ft 200 lbs./in. Rr 175 lbs./in
Steeda Boss Springs: Ft 225 lbs./in. Rr 195 lbs./in
Steeda Ultra-lite: Ft. 195 lbs./in. Rr. 175 lbs./in
Eibach Pro street Coilover: FT. 225 lbs./in Rr. 90-200 lbs./in * Eibach Spec sheet
Eibach Pro R1: Ft 225 lbs./in Rr 250lbs./in * Eibach Spec sheet
H&R RSS Clubsport: Ft 630 lbs./in Rr 515 lbs./in * H&R Spec sheet
302S: Ft 600lbs./in Rr 350lbs./in * Official Ford 302S manual
Suspension Techniques/KW V1/2/3: Ft. 342lbs./in Rr 200lbs./in * KW confirmed. Rates are @ static load/ride height

Pentalab said:

I looked at the steeda bump steer kit manual a few years back.... and it looked like a cluster to install. In the instructions, to tweak it, the suspension has to be loaded down really good. The only way I could come up with to fully load both sides of the front suspension, would be to use a drive on lift...then use a pair of cum-a-longs from frame to ground, to suck the front end way down. Then it's tweaked, then suspension put back to idle ride height, then re-checked, plus wheel alignment done for camber + toe. Then re-loaded to max and re-checked.

How else can you load the front suspension ?
https://www.steeda.com/assets/documents/555-8106.pdf

Edit: Ok, so you do require a drive on lift + come-a-longS...and several hrs to get the bumps steer kit installed and aligned correctly. I wasn't prepared to spend an entire day on this. Very few places here in town have drive on lifts, I would go broke in the process..with still no guarantee it was done right.

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I chose the coilover with spring removed method when I did mine. I also purchased the Maximum Motorsport Bumpsteer Install setup which includes the Dial indicator, Wooden hinged board, and various other bits and pieces. As SoundguyDave mentioned, the suspension is then cycled thru its full Droop/Bump range while MANY measurements are taken at 1/2" increments and noted along the way. With that info, one then generates an Excel Line graph of each washer configuration to then compare to each configuration along the way until the ideal line is found.

A very important variable to maintain along the way is your end state alignment which is harder then it sounds. I ended up purchasing a digital alignment tool that attached to the Wheel Hub to maintain some steady state of alignment along the way. Simply marking the Caster/Camber plate before I started turned out to be a mistake. It was way off.

Its not a fun process but in the end, looking back at it now, it was a good learning experience. At the time, if asked what I thought of it, I would have just as soon puked on your feet as a reply

Sky Render said:

EDIT:
Also, Maximum Motorsports told me that the spherical bearing in their CC plates "don't fail" and told me I had to get out a dial indicator and take a bunch of measurements to prove that it did indeed fail. What's the point of having a warranty if you're going to act like your customers are trying to pull one over on you?

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Because they're that confident in their design - as am I. That spherical bearing only carries radial loads and the axial load created by damping by the strut. As tight and high quality as that bearing is, it would take an inordinate amount of miles to wear it out.

I developed a clunk in my front left suspension, and it turned out to be a bad Motorcraft strut bearing. It was new (less than 9 months old), and the root cause was a botched install - i didn't torque the strut shaft nut with the spring unloaded (on spring compressors). I believe this allowed the strut bearing to become cocked on the spring - the indentation on the plastic carrier, left by the bottom of my MM CC plate - is what led me to this conclusion. A new strut bearing and correct installation of left me clunk free thus far (6 month, and on stickier tires).

stevbd said:

It's 28" from the ground to the wheel well arch, and 15 1/2" from the wheel well arch to the center of the wheel. That first number is going to vary somewhat depending on what size wheels and tires you use. Same measurements front and rear, the car sits level.

The car definitely is lower than stock (non-Brembo 2011 GT) but you are right, not by a lot.

I suspect Bilsteins tend to raise the ride height a little due to being high pressure charged. I know dampers aren't supposed to affect ride height, but there are a lot of anecdotal reports of this.

EDIT: Concerning the P vs. K I think Ford reports the P lower 1" and the K 1.5". The P reportedly are a little stiffer in the front and softer in the rear compared to the K, although consistent spring rates are hard to come by.

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I just measured my fronts at 27 15/16" from ground to arch. And 15 5/16" from exact center of hub to arch. That's with a 275-40-18 on a 10" wide rim. Per Roush, this is supposed to be a 1/2" drop. You have the same 275-40-18..but on a 9.5" rim.

So ur Vorshlag Bilstein + P springs is aprx .5" drop. A Vorshlag bilstein + K spring should equate to a 1" drop.

travelers said:

I found this a few years back FWIW...

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Those are all in agreement with the rates I've been able to dig up around the internet too. The problem is, about half of those are progressive springs: FRPP (both), Eibach, maybe some of the Steedas (depending who you believe), KW,...

So are those rated @ ride height? Static length? Some nominal value of compression? Unless you can bring the tech yourself (do you have a spring compressor w/ 1000lb+ load cell, 'cuz I sure don't...), you're taking someone else's word for what is going to 'work', or even what "it" is that you're using.

So this is what a couple hundred dollars worth of control arms looks like.



I'm going a bit out of order. I'm replacing the passenger-side arm first to definitively remove that variable in causing that clunking I'm getting. I was planning on replacing these arms this winter, anyway, to "upgrade" to the fourth and final version of them.

If I still have the clunk, I'm going to try once again to get Maximum Motorsports to honor their lifetime warranty on their camber plates.

The maximum motorsports camber plates will soon be a moot point once the Vorshlag CC plates / bilstein / k springs get installed. Per Vorshlags notes, the top center nylock nut on their CC assy has to be hit with the impact gun a few times. They say, if it's not tight, you will trash their bearing assy..which is not covered by their warranty. Since you are ordering them already pre-assembled, they should be good to go. But it would be a good idea to check em anyway, b4 install.

If the MM caster/camber plate is the problem and they honor their warranty, I won't be swapping my suspension out for the Vorshlag setup.

I cant tell but are there Heat Shields in the box also? Just curious if Ford made another change.

2013DIBGT said:

I cant tell but are there Heat Shields in the box also? Just curious if Ford made another change.

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Yes, this is the fourth iteration of the control arms (part number ends in "D.") There is a heat shield that protects the rear hydro bushing from the catalytic converter's heat. The shields are separate parts and must be ordered separately, along with 3 screws per side to fasten them. The heat shields cannot be easily added to earlier arm designs, because the earlier arms lack the brackets to hold the shields.

I will take some pictures when I install the passenger side arm this weekend.

Well, the suspension rebuild is on hold indefinitely. It turns out I suck at diagnosing things.

I "ruled out" the sway bar by disconnecting the end links. However, one of the bushings had disintegrated to the point where the bar was physically bouncing and clunking around inside the saddle. Of course, I didn't realize this, because the bushing looked fine on inspection, and I am an idiot.

Upon admitting defeat in this diagnosis, I took my car to the local dealer. The tech, after spending 3 hours trying to figure out where the problem is coming from, completely removed the sway bar in a fit of rage, and the clunking disappeared. He noticed the damaged bushing only after it was removed from the vehicle.

BMR, being the awesome company they are, sent me new bushings and saddles via Priority Mail, and now the clunking is gone.

TL;DR: Vince is a moron and won't be rebuilding the front suspension (yet).

Sky Render said:

Well, the suspension rebuild is on hold indefinitely. It turns out I suck at diagnosing things.

I "ruled out" the sway bar by disconnecting the end links. However, one of the bushings had disintegrated to the point where the bar was physically bouncing and clunking around inside the saddle. Of course, I didn't realize this, because the bushing looked fine on inspection, and I am an idiot.

Upon admitting defeat in this diagnosis, I took my car to the local dealer. The tech, after spending 3 hours trying to figure out where the problem is coming from, completely removed the sway bar in a fit of rage, and the clunking disappeared. He noticed the damaged bushing only after it was removed from the vehicle.

BMR, being the awesome company they are, sent me new bushings and saddles via Priority Mail, and now the clunking is gone.

TL;DR: Vince is a moron and won't be rebuilding the front suspension (yet).

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You know I am only a phone call away.....

I have chassis ears at my house.(PS, you need to come over and peep the new house/garage) We could have diagnosed this in 20mins + beer time.

Im surprised the local dealer tech didnt use chassis ears to identify it. Literally the best thing for any NVH issue since sliced bread.

Sky Render said:

Well, the suspension rebuild is on hold indefinitely. It turns out I suck at diagnosing things.

I "ruled out" the sway bar by disconnecting the end links. However, one of the bushings had disintegrated to the point where the bar was physically bouncing and clunking around inside the saddle. Of course, I didn't realize this, because the bushing looked fine on inspection, and I am an idiot.

Upon admitting defeat in this diagnosis, I took my car to the local dealer. The tech, after spending 3 hours trying to figure out where the problem is coming from . . .

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At least you got a tech who was willing to put more time into it than just taking a quick glance at it and throwing in the towel because nothing looked 'broken'.

Few years ago, my car was at the dealership for a SJB replacement, and while it was there I asked them to investigate a front end clunk that had just started occurring, mostly during turns in one direction but not the other and worse when I hit bumps on one side than on the other. "Can't find anything" was the answer I got.

Turned out to be the fasteners for only one of the chassis brackets had loosened a couple whole turns. Something to add to your diagnostics notebook.


Norm

He might have used a set of 'Ears. I have a single-channel Chassis Ears myself, but I still couldn't figure out where the noise was coming from.

kevinatfms said:

You know I am only a phone call away.....

I have chassis ears at my house.

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What brand or which ones did you get? Do you like them? I'm having a noise in the front end and I'll pick a set up.

I have read this entire thread and wow. I really enjoyed this a lot! Sky I loved all of your articles. I only wish I could get working on my suspension and really just updating it to make it new again. I daily my car and do about 15-20k a year. I like to drive spirited and the occasional autoX if there's one near me and when I'm in Jacksonville at Camp Blanding I'll try and hit the FIRM for a little. But nothing crazy. I've got Koni rear shocks and will do BMR springs the lowering springs to have a softer spring than current SR springs. I've also got BMR LCA with poly, and BMR LCA relocation brackets all waiting patiently to go in my car when I have the time. Then When the $$$ comes after my house is built I will hopefully get some front shocks from Koni, J&M camber plates or M&M caster camber plates with the BMR springs to put in and then some Sam Strano sway bars along with new Moog OEM spec front lower control arms. Just can't wait till I can get the rear completed with what I have. I already have a BMR panhard bar. Eventually I want to get their watts link just to have a more stable rear end and confident rear. Where I am in Florida the roads are pretty crappy. Very bumpy, rips, and holes all over.

Thanks for reading and for the kind words!

In other news, I probably won't be doing much of anything with the Mustang this year, other than installing the front lip kit that I got for Christmas. I'm on the cusp of making a bit of a career change, and if so, I'll be moving to a different part of the state. So all of that would eat into my wrenching time, mod money, and autocross time this year. I'd also probably end up having less garage space, so I might be going to a single set of wheels/tires.

Sky Render said:

Thanks for reading and for the kind words!

In other news, I probably won't be doing much of anything with the Mustang this year, other than installing the front lip kit that I got for Christmas. I'm on the cusp of making a bit of a career change, and if so, I'll be moving to a different part of the state. So all of that would eat into my wrenching time, mod money, and autocross time this year. I'd also probably end up having less garage space, so I might be going to a single set of wheels/tires.

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You're welcome.

Good luck with the possible career change Sky. I made a transition about 7 months ago and was the greatest thing that has happened. But still trying my best to bust it in school as well to further myself where I'm at. But I really look forward to more on your build. What other p;ans do you have for your car? Seems like you already have most everything via a daily driver.

Hey Sky,

I was wanting your opinion on the Hawk pads and I know you really like them and the DBA rotors. My car is 99% daily and I run the stoptech pads which are fantastic pads. Also great price. They have a high temp rating and I have really tried to fade these screwing around her in FL and couldn't. But They do dust a lot and are great even when cold for bite. I was looking to either try out the power stops next or bite the bullet on Hawks for all 4 corners. I have centric premium solid rotors as well. I'm probably going to get these rotor turned and use or will probably replace with the DBA after your review if the funds are available. Want low dust and good all around bite which the Hawks look like it but my wallet hits me when I think about it lol.

Thanks