Time to replace Ball Joints

DILYSI Dave

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FYI, I just replaced ball joints on my '06. I didn't need anything fancy since it's a daily driver, so I ordered up some Moog replacements and pressed them in myself. Kind of a PITA, but no big deal, and they were $35 each. I did Moog tie rods at the same time and was into the whole job for less than $120.
 

Smokievol

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Why GT 500??

The issue I have with the GT500 arms is why would I use parts that clearly have worn out before from Ford. Would I not get the same result?
They are an easy solution thou.

Next question, since I am lowered with Steeda Sport Springs and Koni Yellows, should I not add a bumpster kit anyway?

Steeda and Whiteline both recommend that, right?



Why force yourself to spend even more money by needing to buy a bumpsteer kit on a car that isn't doing any track work? You've also seen what a pain in the dick it it do deal with bushing removal. you trust your "performance shop" to do it right? Plus, these things require regular maintenace?
Nonsense. Get a set of GT500 arms and call it a day.
 

Smokievol

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Looked at the Moogs

Checked out Moogs, but they are not longer and therefore will not help with the bumpsteer issue.....Thats the way I am reading everything.
Have only heard good things about Moog.....and the price is right.

FYI, I just replaced ball joints on my '06. I didn't need anything fancy since it's a daily driver, so I ordered up some Moog replacements and pressed them in myself. Kind of a PITA, but no big deal, and they were $35 each. I did Moog tie rods at the same time and was into the whole job for less than $120.
 

Smokievol

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Whitelines are number one choice right now

Whitelines are number one choice right now, with Steeda a close second.

Have found the best price for that kit, 246.00 with free shipping.

I would like to change out the other bushings, and that is where most difficult part of the job would seem to be,,,,which means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That is why the complete change out of the arms seems like the easy and smart thing to do.....BUT...


You can also look at Whitelines kit. It comes with ball joints and bumpsteer kit and you keep your arms.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KCA306
 

SoundGuyDave

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Just so that we keep it all on the same playing field, I think what you're talking about is Roll Center, not Bump Steer. Bump Steer is defined as a change in toe angle with suspension motion. Front Roll Center is defined as the point where a line drawn from the center of the ball-joint (pivot, not stud!) through the center of the control arm bushings intersects the same line from the other control arm. Lowering the front end can push the front RC underground...

Again, as was asked before, if you're not pushing your car (tracking it regularly), the roll center really has no effect on the way the car handles on the street, so why open up a can of worms? The taller stud WILL create bump-steer issues, that then require additional parts, plus a fairly significant amount of time on an alignment rack with a tech that knows what he's doing...

FWIW, Moog makes excellent OE replacement parts. That said, they will wear, just like the Ford OE stuff will. If you price the Ford Racing Cobra control arms, which honestly ARE reboxed GT500 arms, you'll find that they probably cost LESS than the Moog ball joints, plus joint install labor. AND you'll get fresh bushings out of the deal, as well.
 
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The issue I have with the GT500 arms is why would I use parts that clearly have worn out before from Ford. Would I not get the same result?
They are an easy solution thou.

Next question, since I am lowered with Steeda Sport Springs and Koni Yellows, should I not add a bumpster kit anyway?

Steeda and Whiteline both recommend that, right?

I think a better question is "why would you want to change to something else after 72k miles of use?" How long do you expect any "high end" or whatever ball joint to last? Your bushings are probably getting tired so you might as well do the whole shebang. If you come into a "racer's den" asking for advice, your gonna be told to get ball joints capaple of landing your car on the moon. Yes, gt500 arms will work on yor setup fine. No need to throw a bucket of cash at it.
 

dontlifttoshift

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Front Roll Center is defined as the point where a line drawn from the center of the ball-joint (pivot, not stud!) through the center of the control arm bushings intersects the same line from the other control arm. Lowering the front end can push the front RC underground...

Close, instant center is drawing a line through the ball joint and bushing and a line perpendicular off of the top of the strut. Then a line from instant center back to where the SAI meets the ground. Where that line crosses the center of the vehicle (for the sake of this conversation) which should be the same for both sides is the roll center.
 

SoundGuyDave

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Oops, ya got me...

fig-14.gif


Still, if you take a look, the control arm angle is a REALLY good indicator of where your roll center is. IF the arm is pointing uphill towards the ball joint, it's a fairly safe bet that your RC will be subterranean, which I think we all agree is sub-optimal... ;-) Thanks for the correction, though!
 

dontlifttoshift

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Thanks for the pic, I tried to post that exact image but was too lazy. Wasn't trying to catch you, just don't want people to think that the angle of the control arm does it all by itself.
 

DILYSI Dave

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Checked out Moogs, but they are not longer and therefore will not help with the bumpsteer issue.....Thats the way I am reading everything.
Have only heard good things about Moog.....and the price is right.

Correct, they are just OE replacement. If you do want the longer ones, the Ford Racing arms are probably the easy button.
 

zquez

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Easy button indeed. I wish i hadn't even bothered with my stock arms. Such a waste of time. In any case, i have some brand new x5 ball joints i haven't gotten around to listing in classifieds if you're interested op.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

DILYSI Dave

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Easy button indeed. I wish i hadn't even bothered with my stock arms. Such a waste of time. In any case, i have some brand new x5 ball joints i haven't gotten around to listing in classifieds if you're interested op.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Still got your original arms around? You mentioned "destroying" one of them. How so? I may be interested in them to help me develop a spherical bearing kit.
 

zquez

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They're not really "destroyed" but i made the steel buckle and it left a stress riser so i decided too trash it rather than risk it on a road course. The other is still intact though. They're just sitting on the floor in my garage

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 

Smokievol

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I decided to hit the Easy Button and get the Ford Racing Cobra Arms.....
On their way from Am Muscle!

Along with the Ford Racing GT500 CAI for the Supercharger.
 

JesseW.

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sheizasosay

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That's almost perfect. It doesn't say how tall the ball joint is either. Just need to have a bushing option for whiteline. Whiteline bushing offering would be a major plus. Good find though! I wonder if that's a new addition or if it's just been that long since I visited Steeda. Urethane Energy bushing is definitely a step above rubber oem by a large margin. I'll definitely keep that on the list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Teege24

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Alrighty guys for the lack of not wanting to make another thread when this is somewhat related. Is their a write up somewhere on replacement of the inner and outer tie rods? my haynes manual covers the inners but not the outers...Please help!
 

Vorshlag-Fair

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Why force yourself to spend even more money by needing to buy a bumpsteer kit on a car that isn't doing any track work? You've also seen what a pain in the dick it it do deal with bushing removal. you trust your "performance shop" to do it right? Plus, these things require regular maintenace? Nonsense. Get a set of GT500 arms and call it a day.

Or get a set of replacement Ford front Lower Control Arms and call it an even shorter day. That's assuming your ball joints are even bad. Did someone check this and see movement in the joint? There are easy ways to verify if the ball joint has any slop in it - any decent service shop should be able to check. We do this on every car that rolls in for a Track Inspection.

DSC_2196-M.jpg


Want to guess which arms and "bumpsteer kit" we have on our TT3 prepped Mustang? That runs a 335mm Hoosier A6 front tire?

DSC_1163-M.jpg


If you said "The stock 2011 GT front control arms" then you are the winner! Of course we strongly suggest upgrading the big beer can sized hydraulic bushing in the rear of this arm, but after you do that you don't need to do anything else.



About $60 in parts and an afternoon of labor and you have all the advantages of the aftermarket front control arms with NONE of the hassles of needing "bump steer correction" kits or any worries of "premature control arm failure". NOTE: You ONLY need to do these bushings if you are doing some SERIOUS track use (race tires) AND ONLY if your car is a 2005-2010 or 2012-14. The 2011 is cursed with an electronic steering rack that has goofy programming that will fight against these bushings.

_DSC3353-M.jpg


We bent the living crap out of the stock front LCA when Amy drove over a curb sideways. Destroyed a wheel and bent the tie-rod like a pretzel. But you know what? Not only did the car still drive but I set another track record on said bent arm the next day, after adjusting the toe. An aftermarket tubular arm would have been in pieces. My point is - the factory front control arm is tough as nails and when it fails (after a crash) it fails VERY WELL. Just my 2 cents.

DSC_1016-M.jpg

Right front has positive camber from the badly bent LCA, still winning...

I see so many people buy worthless doo-dads that do nothing but cause problems and require other fixes - it just frustrates me.
 
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sheizasosay

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Or get a set of replacement Ford front Lower Control Arms and call it an even shorter day.

Terry any particular reason you guys don't use the Prothane bushing that already has the metal shell?

Reference post 122 -http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1985410#post1985410
 

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