Hawk HPS vs Powerstop Z26 vs Stoptech vs EBC pads

Pentalab

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Carbotech 1521 is a decent DD pad. Hawk HPS works good, but is now being phased out, and replaced with their newer Hawk HPS-5.0
 

kcbrown

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So better than your normal autozone/OEM pad and I get some fade with my autozone pads when im out having fun. What kind of rotors do you recommend with them?


I've been using the Stoptech slotted rotors, which help some with fade, but may be more prone to pad deposit buildup. Hard to say, really, since I drive the car harder on the track than I used to.

Most street pads have a MOT less than 1000 degrees (Autozone pads are likely quite a lot less than that). They're not really built for repeated hard use. The Stoptech pads are at least decent for that, perhaps better than most street pads (I've not heard of another street pad with as high a MOT).

I should note that my setup is different from yours in two very important aspects. The first is that I have brake ducts. The second is that I have the 14" Brembo brakes. Both will make a significant difference with respect to fade, and allow for a "lesser" pad under conditions that otherwise would demand a better one. In your case, I'd try the Stoptech pads (or something else with an equivalent MOT) and see if that proves sufficient. If it doesn't, then you're only out about $60.



(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)
 

CammedS197

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I've been using the Stoptech slotted rotors, which help some with fade, but may be more prone to pad deposit buildup. Hard to say, really, since I drive the car harder on the track than I used to.

Most street pads have a MOT less than 1000 degrees (Autozone pads are likely quite a lot less than that). They're not really built for repeated hard use. The Stoptech pads are at least decent for that, perhaps better than most street pads (I've not heard of another street pad with as high a MOT).

I should note that my setup is different from yours in two very important aspects. The first is that I have brake ducts. The second is that I have the 14" Brembo brakes. Both will make a significant difference with respect to fade, and allow for a "lesser" pad under conditions that otherwise would demand a better one. In your case, I'd try the Stoptech pads (or something else with an equivalent MOT) and see if that proves sufficient. If it doesn't, then you're only out about $60.



(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)

Ok thanks exactly what I was looking for and was thinking about the slotted rotors but probably later after I find which pad I want to stick with PFC or the Stoptech, going to try both. I believe great price for better bang and DD driving and some fun on back roads. Heard the StopTechs can go up to around 1200 degrees also.
 

CammedS197

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I've been using the Stoptech slotted rotors, which help some with fade, but may be more prone to pad deposit buildup. Hard to say, really, since I drive the car harder on the track than I used to.

Most street pads have a MOT less than 1000 degrees (Autozone pads are likely quite a lot less than that). They're not really built for repeated hard use. The Stoptech pads are at least decent for that, perhaps better than most street pads (I've not heard of another street pad with as high a MOT).

I should note that my setup is different from yours in two very important aspects. The first is that I have brake ducts. The second is that I have the 14" Brembo brakes. Both will make a significant difference with respect to fade, and allow for a "lesser" pad under conditions that otherwise would demand a better one. In your case, I'd try the Stoptech pads (or something else with an equivalent MOT) and see if that proves sufficient. If it doesn't, then you're only out about $60.



(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)

Ok thanks exactly what I was looking for and was thinking about the slotted rotors but probably later after I find which pad I want to stick with PFC or the Stoptech, going to try both. I believe great price for better bang and DD driving and some fun on back roads. Heard the StopTechs can go up to around 1200 degrees also.
 

duststang

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I ran a set of cross drilled slotted from R1 with some stop tech pads. they would stop good but I warped after about 8 months mostly as my DD. I now went with Power Stop cross drilled slotted I guess we will see. A recommendation make sure you follow brake in procedure. this makes a big difference in the performance.

I have an extra new set of Power Stop K1380 front cross drilled clotted rotors with pads for sale cheap if you want to try them. lol
 

CammedS197

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I ran a set of cross drilled slotted from R1 with some stop tech pads. they would stop good but I warped after about 8 months mostly as my DD. I now went with Power Stop cross drilled slotted I guess we will see. A recommendation make sure you follow brake in procedure. this makes a big difference in the performance.

I have an extra new set of Power Stop K1380 front cross drilled clotted rotors with pads for sale cheap if you want to try them. lol

Maybe, Just got the stoptech pads and installing next weekend if free.
 

csamsh

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I ran a set of cross drilled slotted from R1 with some stop tech pads. they would stop good but I warped after about 8 months mostly as my DD. I now went with Power Stop cross drilled slotted I guess we will see. A recommendation make sure you follow brake in procedure. this makes a big difference in the performance.

I have an extra new set of Power Stop K1380 front cross drilled clotted rotors with pads for sale cheap if you want to try them. lol

You don't want drilled rotors
 

duststang

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I run cross drilled with out issues? I would agree with cheap drilled rotors but if you buy good brands I have not had any issues.
 

Norm Peterson

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No matter who drills the holes, they still represent locations of local stress concentrations. Such places - structural discontinuities - do not fare well in fatigue, which is repeated loading and unloading that can be thermal as well as mechanical in nature. I used to analyze power plant piping for precisely this sort of thing.


Norm
 

kcbrown

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I run cross drilled with out issues? I would agree with cheap drilled rotors but if you buy good brands I have not had any issues.

For the street, cross drilled might be fine, but then, it doesn't buy you anything, either.

If you're stressing your brakes enough that cross drilling would be of benefit, then you're stressing them enough that they'll be a problem (Norm, as usual, nails it as to why), and are better off going with slotted rotors (if that). If you're not stressing them that much then standard vented rotors are more than sufficient.

Either way, after everything is accounted for, cross drilled rotors don't really buy you anything except bling.
 
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Vorshlag-Fair

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What's that other 1% of driving (that isn't DD) look like?

There's probably a suitable Carbotech pad - check their site for selection guidance. FWIW, even their lower-level XP track pads bite at least as well cold as Hawk's HPS. Cold meaning ambient temperatures at least as low as high 30°'s F. Their 1521's and AX6's should be even better (cold).


Norm
Agreed on these recommendations 100%.

There is no perfect street/track brake pad. Track pads are noisy, dusty, and don't work as well cold. Street pads are quiet, work cold, dust less, but don't work hot.

DSC_2654-M.jpg


For a "99% street car" that means you aren't pushing the car on track, right? Like "noobie green group" going 70% full speed? If so the AX6 is probably the best bet. If you do want to push it on track try the lower XP pads from Carbotech, like XP8 or XP12. They will dust more and make some noise, but not as bad as the XP20s.

Hawk HPS and all EBC pads are better left to the non-enthusiast bargain hunters. They are low end pads.

B61G9225-M.jpg


For real track use the first things you need in a Brembo equipped Mustang are GOOD brake fluid, better flex lines and real pads. I cannot count how many Mustang folks take this for granted - we've changed dozens of pads and done dozens of fluid changes at the track before, but there's not always a crew like this at all HPDE events.
 

El_Tortuga

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Ill probably catch a little slack from the track guys, but I do about 50-50% track/dd and I run stock 14" GT500 rotors and PFC-Z rated pads. They work fantastic and I got over 12 track days on my last set plus about 7,000 miles. I can dive about as deep as most and they don't eat the rotors up.

I've gone to racier/more obnoxious pads since, but for dual purpose/light track I liked the PFC Z.011. Dusty as the rest, but didn't squeal on the daily. Not the best on track, but held up reasonably well and very predictable.
 

duststang

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Why do all high performance vehicles Vette's, Vipers, Etc. come from factory with cross drilled? Why big brake kits like Brembo are cross drilled? I understand your point of structural discontinuities - with fatigue, but wouldn't that suggest to manufacture solid rotors? Even non-cross drilled rotors would have similar issues? I think the more important issue would be cheap sets using cheap materials.
 

Mark Aubele

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Why do all high performance vehicles Vette's, Vipers, Etc. come from factory with cross drilled? Why big brake kits like Brembo are cross drilled? I understand your point of structural discontinuities - with fatigue, but wouldn't that suggest to manufacture solid rotors? Even non-cross drilled rotors would have similar issues? I think the more important issue would be cheap sets using cheap materials.

Because people are stupid, and stupid people are attracted to cross drilled rotors. They want to sell cars, and sexy cross drilled rotors draw people in. There is no practical reason for cross drilled or slotted rotors outside of driving your car through a mud bog.
 

Norm Peterson

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Why do all high performance vehicles Vette's, Vipers, Etc. come from factory with cross drilled? Why big brake kits like Brembo are cross drilled? I understand your point of structural discontinuities - with fatigue, but wouldn't that suggest to manufacture solid rotors? Even non-cross drilled rotors would have similar issues? I think the more important issue would be cheap sets using cheap materials.
Because bling sells, and it reads good in the advertising copy for your fancy sports car to be equipped with brakes different from what stops your 4-cylinder family sedan.

Years ago - decades ago and ages in terms of brake development - cross-drilling gave the products of pad outgassing a way out instead of floating the pads clear of the rotors on a microscopic gas film. That isn't of nearly as much concern these days. Good thing, too, since cars are typically almost half a ton heavier now than then, and faster to boot.

People today, perhaps especially including leading repair industry professionals, are also far more aware of the benefits of 'bedding in' new brakes. The process should get the pads warm enough to boil off most of the gases that do remain. Track pad bedding specifically notes fade being at least possible if not outright to be expected.


Norm
 

Pentalab

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Why do all high performance vehicles Vette's, Vipers, Etc. come from factory with cross drilled? Why big brake kits like Brembo are cross drilled? I understand your point of structural discontinuities - with fatigue, but wouldn't that suggest to manufacture solid rotors? Even non-cross drilled rotors would have similar issues? I think the more important issue would be cheap sets using cheap materials.

Slotted is fine. Cross drilled buys you nothing. Even rotor companies like DBA (who sell both cross drilled and also cross drilled + slotted) state in big letters..... "NOT TO BE USED FOR TRACK PURPOSES".

Cross drilled doesn't cool anything. The rotor is one big heatsink. You put a bunch of cross drilled holes in it, and you just reduced the mass of the rotor. One fellow used cross drilled rotors on a road course, and and entire section of rotor broke off.... just like a wedge of pie. It was jammed up, locked up..and car went flying off the track, dumped on it's side.

I have seen pix of other cross drilled rotor's where hairline cracks formed between adjacent holes. Then more hairline cracks form, then they start getting bigger. Cross drilled is just a silly aesthetic thing.
 

csamsh

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Why do all high performance vehicles Vette's, Vipers, Etc. come from factory with cross drilled? Why big brake kits like Brembo are cross drilled? I understand your point of structural discontinuities - with fatigue, but wouldn't that suggest to manufacture solid rotors? Even non-cross drilled rotors would have similar issues? I think the more important issue would be cheap sets using cheap materials.

Because most of those cars will be cars and coffee cars, not track cars, and those rotors look cool at cars and coffee.
 

kcbrown

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Because people are stupid, and stupid people are attracted to cross drilled rotors. They want to sell cars, and sexy cross drilled rotors draw people in. There is no practical reason for cross drilled or slotted rotors outside of driving your car through a mud bog.

I've seen a minor improvement in fade resistance from slotted rotors compared with smooth rotors. But it was minor, not major -- the fade's still there.

Same track, same car, same driver, same temperature, same pads, same brake cooling. Probably even the same metallurgy in the rotors (Stoptech and Centric are the same company). If anything, I was driving harder on the slotted rotors than on the smooth ones.

If the price of the smooth rotors is substantially lower than the slotted ones, you may as well go with the smooth rotors. If you want a substantial increase in fade resistance, you need to go with pads rated for higher temperatures. A rotor change will have only a minor effect, if it has any at all.

I went with slotted rotors to see if it would have any beneficial effect at all. It did, but not a lot.
 

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