Get rid of your 3valve it'll never be fast!!!

tjm73

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It's not a thinnly veiled jab - it's fact.

http://www.nmradigital.com/dl/rules/fm.pdf

You can see the deleted part.

Interesting. But I don't see an issue with that. In effect it allows, let's say, a 1940 Ford to run with a 2017 Coyote engine rather than a Flathead. And is you are running in an index what difference does it make what engine is used?
 

Juice

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Not a "fanboy" by anymeans. Logic led me to the Yote swap. It's my daily, needed to have decent MPG. I wanted more power, thus the engine swap (and the car was essentially down due to a slipping clutch) Made that power on 87 octane. I'm getting 20.x MPGs in 50/50 city/highway. Initial cost maybe more with a Yote, install more complex. But I plan to DD this car for the next 100K, and I think I will save the difference of cost in fuel savings.

Slapping a blower on could easily make 650 at the wheels safely. But then no more 87.
 

NUTCASE

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The biggest problem any time you are modding, or just choosing different options for MPG, is how long will this decision take to pay for itself. I used to work at a place where I would see guys all day buy fleets of F250 and 350 all gas saying that they have crunched the numbers and the higher MPG diesels won't pay for themselves. Hybrids have had a hard time catching on for years because of the balance between cost and fuel savings.

Just to play with numbers, I get 18mpg combined short drives and flogging on it often. 100k/20=5000, 100k/18=5,556. my car needs premium. in my area regular is 2.17 and premium is 2.49. 5000x2.17= $10,850 5,556x2.49=$13,833. So the difference is $2,983

I don't think this will change much over time because typically the price hikes are on the base price of regular. Typically the difference between regular and premium stay close to the same.
 

ghunt81

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I used to work at a place where I would see guys all day buy fleets of F250 and 350 all gas saying that they have crunched the numbers and the higher MPG diesels won't pay for themselves.

Well, no surprise...the diesel is something like an $8,000 option now...and with the regen cycles and other environmental junk slapped on the current diesel, it doesn't do THAT much better on mileage than the 6.2 gasser V8, maybe 4-5 better mpg highway at best. And on top of that, 87 is still cheaper than diesel. I'm not sure a diesel could ever make up for that difference, so I can understand it.

(sorry that's way off topic)
 

Gabe

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But the diesels will out-tow the gas engines any day, so if there's any hauling involved, a diesel is pretty much a must.

Read an article yesterday about the new Equinox or Traverse, whatever, some new Chevy SUV that will have a diesel option, will get 39 highway mpg, and how it will take at least 11 years to offset the difference in cost versus getting the gas engine.
What the writer didn't realize is that driving a diesel is a complete different experience than any gas engine can deliver.
The torque you get from a diesel (and the way it's delivered) and yeah the gas mileage (which is probably gonna be even better than the 39 they're rating it for highway), those are things you can't get in a gasser.

My wife and I just put 2,630 miles on a 2016 Hyundai Elantra driving it to North Carolina and back.
We averaged 36.4 mpg during that time, not trying to get good gas mileage, it just happened, with one tank at 40.5 mpg.
I can only imagine the mpg's that little car would've gotten if it had a small turbodiesel under the hood with that same 6spd auto trans hooked up to it, or better yet a 6-spd manual.

A friend of mine travels to Europe a lot, last time there he rented something that would be a unicorn in the US: a manual-transmission diesel Fusion wagon.
Absolutely loved it, and he's no slouch when he drives, he got the thing to 140 mph, and here he autocrosses his Mustang and does awesome with it, always placing in the top scores.

I really wish more diesels would be offered in the US, I really think they're a much better choice for good mpg than a hybrid, and with more choices the prices for them would get lower.

The Fiesta already gets over 40 mpg if driven right (my ex had one and I got 44 mpg out of the thing once driving it a couple hundred miles at about 65mph). With a small turbodiesel and a 6-speed manual the thing could probably touch 55mpg or more!

Yeah, we might be off-topic a bit, sorry.
 

tjm73

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I was thinking about a diesel for my next truck. My conclusion, $8000 will buy A LOT of gas. If the average difference in fuel economy is 4 mpg (13 gas v. 17 diesel unloaded), or put another way the difference being 1.81 gal/hundred miles, and gas is $2.40/gal it will take like 184,162 miles to spend the $8000 you saved by not buying a diesel. At this point you might start saving on fuel.

And if you tow sometimes, the difference is still comparable. They are still within about 4 mpg of each other. If you tow a lot and drive a lot (30-40K/year), they start to maybe make sense.

Now if you are buying used, that changes things potentially.
 

NUTCASE

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The big three are trying to make every new diesel 50 state legal and california (of course) has special idle requirements now.

I am working in security now and one of the properties has an overflow lot for a for dealership. I shit you not, I will post pics for a dollar, there are several F650s out there that have V10 Triton badges on the side.
 

tjm73

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The big three are trying to make every new diesel 50 state legal and california (of course) has special idle requirements now.

I am working in security now and one of the properties has an overflow lot for a for dealership. I shit you not, I will post pics for a dollar, there are several F650s out there that have V10 Triton badges on the side.

This is why I think an Ecoboost V8 DOHC is in the pipeline for HD trucks.

If Ford detuned the newest 5.0 DOHC by 10%, beefed up the rods/pistons and put 10-12 psi into it from a pair of turbos, or even a single turbo, it would be a beast of a workhorse. If you upsized the 3.5EB to a 5.0EB, 525 hp and 650 ft-lbs should be easily within reach.
 
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NUTCASE

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And Diesel vs gas is just like 4wd vs 2wd and srw vs drw. If penny pinching hurts the fingers than by all means the F450 Platnum 4wd DRW diesel for you. But for any utility purpose you need to think about price of entry, depretiation over the time you plan on owning it, anticipated terrain, anticipated time spent loaded, anticipated time spent going up a mountain, maintenance, and fuel.

I got all the truck my paycheck and credit would allow me once. Paid for that bad boy until I couldn't pay any more and I traded it in. I am more careful about picking trucks and SUVs these days.
 

01yellerCobra

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I guess I look at things differently. 4-5mpg over a tank makes a big difference in how far you can go. I drive to Az and 4mpg is an extra 104 miles per tank. That's the difference between making it on one tank or having to stop and fill up. As for towing MPG, my Expy got 9-11mpg towing my boat. My truck gets 14-15 towing the same boat. Along with being able to pass people going up a steep hill if needed. So to me the price for admission to diesel was worth it. Of course the 10k off the price didn't hurt either.

As for making things fast, anything is possible with enough money. I've seen fast 2V's. But they spent the same amount of money on just their heads that I spent on my whole short block.

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tjm73

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14-15 towing sounds great. But you have to pay a $8000 up front to get it. For me $8000 buys a ton of gas. I am ok with stopping for fuel when I need it. I could probably use a stretch the legs break anyway or to take a piss. If I was in the mountains a lot, the value dynamic would change.

I've actually started thinking about the 2.7EB for my next truck. I am totally happy with my 300 hp/365 ft-lb 5.4 3V unloaded. I only dislike towing with it. The newest 2.7EB has 325 hp (another 25hp is nice) and it has 400 ft-lbs. A boost of 35 ft-lbs. But the nugget of torquey goodness is the delivery of that 400 ft-lbs at 2750rpm. That's 1000 rpm sooner than the 365 ft-lbs I have now. That's huge. Combined with the 10 speed and 3.73 gears and it should tow my 6000 pound camper real nice.
 
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01yellerCobra

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I tend to hold on to vehicles for a long time. 10 years isn't far off for me. So I'll get my money back. Plus I know what I have planned for the future. So it made sense to make the investment now.

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ponys197

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My 2014 F150 FX4 EB got almost 16mpg towing my 2006 Mustang GT and trailer up to Route 66 and back. I have a Diablosport i2 for it and am using one of the canned tunes on the device. It has the 6R80 and 3.55 rear end in it.
 

ghunt81

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I shit you not, I will post pics for a dollar, there are several F650s out there that have V10 Triton badges on the side.

I heard about that. Looks like the 3V V10 is the standard base engine on the F450 and up cab-chassis. So I wonder why it's not even offered in the other trucks anymore?
 

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tjm73

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My guess is emissions certification. I suspect it isn't clean enough for non-commercial use. I think it will go away completely in a year or two and be replaced by a turbo gas V8.

Also it's power delivery is relatively low. It's peak torque is at like 3000 rpm. Peak horsepower at 4000 rpm.
 

NUTCASE

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I heard about that. Looks like the 3V V10 is the standard base engine on the F450 and up cab-chassis. So I wonder why it's not even offered in the other trucks anymore?

Probably something to do with MPG and emissions.

Also some of those V10s have strange HP ratings because you can have them optioned with a 4,000 rpm limiter that cuts it down to like 350hp or something.

I certainly bet Dodge wishes they had kept their V10 program. That thing was a gas hog but between DEF and the new california idle standards I bet it would come in handy. Taking on the Tritons price point and cost of operation by slapping a giant C on the fender doesn't work in the commercial world like it does in retail.

And I like how we round-about came back to 3v motors LOL
 

tjm73

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Also some of those V10s have strange HP ratings because you can have them optioned with a 4,000 rpm limiter that cuts it down to like 350hp or something.

Not optioned. All appear to be.....

288 hp at 4000 rpm
424 ft-lbs at 3000 rpm

Needs 8 psi..... 440 hp and 650 ft-lbs sounds pretty good.
 
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