cam phaser question

Tech... maybe barely.

I have 07 phasers but have them locked out. Car sat for several weeks and finally had time to take tranny out today so I started it up to warm the tranny fluid and drain

Noticed the bastard was knocking pretty good so I shut it off. Oil pressure came right up. About 25°f outside and I use vr50 10w30

Took off belt (electric water pump) and still loud. Sounds like lash adjuster to me and did go away completely when warm. Changed oil and filter. Cut filter and no metal so that is nice

Question is can phasers still make noise even if locked out? The motor and valve train has maybe couple thousand miles at most.

Running comp 127350 as of now with tfs springs.

If the phasers are locked out then no they can't make any noise.

When it was knocking did you manage to use a screwdriver or an automotive stethoscope to isolate where the noise is coming from? My last engine actually snapped both pins that the chain tensioner arms pivot on but I didn't know that until I tore the engine down. It would make a knock at cold startup as well so if you can try to isolate where the noise is that would be the first thing I would do.

Someone had a knock a month or so ago and come to find out it was the guides. He found the chain was knocking on the timing chain cover. Is there any slack in the chains? He had slack which started his topic of discussion...

Did not think the phasers would make noise but thought I would ask.

Does sound like under the cover so when I get the tranny back in I am going to check it out including inspect the oil pump. But... one thing at a time

I used steel 2v tensioners and thinking I may go back to the plastic ones.... I did use a stone and verify the 2v tensioners were true before install. I have heard people are having them collapse quite a bit lately

I don't believe the 2V tensioners collapsed, they have the locking mechanism to prevent that. Was the noise a dieseling sound, like Valve train or actual knock ? Most valve train noise I have heard is always like a diesel pickup on a very cold winter day. What was cold pressure vs hot ?

With how much you push your car I don't think going back to the plastic tensioners would be a smart idea. I keep seeing pictures of people blowing out the seal on the back of the plastic ones so that is why I ended up sticking with the metal 2V ones when I just rebuilt my engine.

Hey off topic question real quick. About to go do cams and limiters. What do I need for the phaser backing plate screws? Is it an allen head? Sorry for barging on

pretty sure 99.9% its a torx

Thanks

The steel tensioners are the best out there. I wouldn't go back to the plastic ones.

Are you guys serious!!!?? I just bought a valvetrain kit which includes the tensioners; on my 1 year old motor, I found on tensioner with a ripped seal.

What are the differences (and benefits) between the 2V and 3V ones?
(sorry to derail the thread)

AutoXRacer said:

Are you guys serious!!!?? I just bought a valvetrain kit which includes the tensioners; on my 1 year old motor, I found on tensioner with a ripped seal.

What are the differences (and benefits) between the 2V and 3V ones?
(sorry to derail the thread)

Click to expand...

The main drawback to the steel tensioners is that they can lock open. They also don't have a seal because they rely on a flat machined surface for a seal.

The main advantage to the plastic tensioners is that they were designed not to lock open. You have to lubricate the seal prior to assembly or it can get torn. It's somewhat fragile.

I've always used the plastic ones. There have been too many threads with steel tensioners locked open for my taste. So far so good.

BruceH said:

I've always used the plastic ones. There have been too many threads with steel tensioners locked open for my taste. So far so good.

Click to expand...

What do you mean locked open? I thought that is what they are supposed to do via the ratchet.

05stroker said:

What do you mean locked open? I thought that is what they are supposed to do via the ratchet.

Click to expand...

There have been members of this forum who have had the metal tensioners lock open or fully extended. This has resulted in broken chain guides. That's the whole reason Ford went to the plastic tensioner, because the metal ones were locking open and breaking things.

From what I understand the plastic tensioners had issues when they first came out too which is why so many people won't use them. Sam has stated that he's seen a lot of failed plastic tensioners. Since he works at a Ford dealership I'd think he has an opportunity to get a better feel for it than us hobbyists.

In the end this is another thing I researched the hell out of prior to my first build and I felt comfortable using the plastic tensioners. BTW they are spring loaded so they won't fail on first start without being pumped up.

All I can do is relay my experiences. I've even reused the plastic tensioners and not had any issues. However, I've only been doing this since 2009. I'm fairly certain that Ford had addressed and fixed any issues with the plastic tensioners by that time. Or I'm just lucky.

At the end, they both suck. I've seen dozens of the plastic sealing blown on stock 3V engines, some got to the level of damaging stuff up in the head because of poor lubrication. On metal, lot of cam drive stuff broken.

Will test something in the crazy engine I am making for my car, quite some weird stuff going in it. Will let you know how it goes and if something fails, will report.

BruceH said:

Or I'm just lucky.

Click to expand...

Probably just this. There is a lot involved, things as proper oil weight but found them break on '10 explorer 3V's (which should have the last revisions of phasers and all) with proper maintenance.

Here is one question, if you lock the phasers, then you don't need the VCT solenoid anymore right? Although I imagine you have to keep it due to the PCM.

But really, its useless once the phasers are locked right?

Get the V10 plates, they are 3V but do not use VCT, if you search, you'll get the numbers around the forum, I'll check mine and post them.

Just use that and seal the bores in the valve covers.

That was hard:

5c3z-6n881-aa
5c3z-6n881-ba

lito said:

Get the V10 plates, they are 3V but do not use VCT, if you search, you'll get the numbers around the forum, I'll check mine and post them.

Just use that and seal the bores in the valve covers.

That was hard:

5c3z-6n881-aa
5c3z-6n881-ba

Click to expand...

So you are saying there are block off plates?
But what happens with the PCM? Won't the PCM be looking for the solenoids?
Also, what happens to the oil pressure?

AutoXRacer said:

So you are saying there are block off plates?
But what happens with the PCM? Won't the PCM be looking for the solenoids?
Also, what happens to the oil pressure?

Click to expand...

These plates have all the lines needed to feed the lifters galleys, caps, etc. on the head. I am using them, dysan is using them, 05stroker is using similars he made himself.

No problem with the PCM with a simple tune correction.

No oil pressure issues.

They were cheap and they already come with the gaskets.

lito said:

These plates have all the lines needed to feed the lifters galleys, caps, etc. on the head. I am using them, dysan is using them, 05stroker is using similars he made himself.

No problem with the PCM with a simple tune correction.

No oil pressure issues.

They were cheap and they already come with the gaskets.

Click to expand...

I took my custom made ones off and used the V10 ones two motors ago. No issues with mine, just didn't want to see what the long term use would result in.