To weld axles tube ot not to weld...

Since the car has made it into the 10 second range and shows potential in good air to go even a little faster come fall, I have contemplated then need to get the axle tubes welded and some support work done. I considered the CHE rear axle housing support bracket but it will not fit with the current relocation brackets I have on the car. Further when inquiring CHE chose to never respond to my email request so therefore I haven't felt the need to follow up via phone because I would likely have a pretty piss poor attitude with regard to their lack of service. So that said and vented...

Could I get some advise from the 9-10 second crowd or a suspension driveline expert who have obviously been at my point in their full weight cars on this topic?

I am running an automatic setup with stock converter for now, full weight car. The car sits on 305/45/17 MT ET street R series that are fresh. I have been making consistent 1.6x 60's at the track. Ran 10.91 @ 127.5 best last week. BMR suspension mods and Lakewood 50/50 shocks. IF more detail is needed let me know I am at work and up against break being over.

I have two local places offering to do the work, one of which will cut me a break and allow me to come in and help him do the removal and disassemble to keep the cost down and to get some hands on.

The big question is whether or not I need to do it at this point or if I am still "safe". The last thing I want is for an axle tune to spin and jerk me into the other guy. Jerking me into the wall is bad enough thought. I def don't want ot take out someone else.

Do a search. It's been discussed. I believe Kelly with BMR made a thread called

Please weld your axle tubes.....or something like that

With an auto, no.

JUSTA3V said:

Do a search. It's been discussed. I believe Kelly with BMR made a thread called

Please weld your axle tubes.....or something like that

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Thanks. I keep forgetting the search engine here works much much better than some "OTHER" sites. I'll do that.

I agree, an auto without a trans brake should be fine at you power level.

I don't think you will have an issue.

BUT, It doesn't hurt to weld them and put the CHE brace on.

I have a customer with an auto, TVS, making about 100 more whp than you and he has damaged his very badly on two occasions with mid 1.4 sixties. You are not "that" far away.

Cool. Thanks Kelly. Just got off the phone with you guys and CHE and found out the latest CHE brace will work with your relocation brackets. That's awesome. I can at least get that on for a little added safety. Have a feeling my guy won't be available to start this until after race season in October sometime.

BTW - I did search and found your rear axle weld thread. Helped a lot. Thanks.

The search engine on this website works so much better than another. In fact it does actually WORK! I plan to use it more. Sorry for the double up on topic.

Yeah, do the CHE brace just to be safe for now.

I am a big fan of their brace, and actually scrapped ours because I didnt want to end up making one that looked just like theirs. That's not how we roll. I rather just recommend theirs.

BMR Tech said:

Yeah, do the CHE brace just to be safe for now.

I am a big fan of their brace, and actually scrapped ours because I didnt want to end up making one that looked just like theirs. That's not how we roll. I rather just recommend theirs.

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+1 for that. I like to see that from a vendor. Respect where it is due.

I dont trust the half ass plug welds on our axle tubes. Ive seen a couple tubes bend on auto cars, 1.6 to 1.7 60's. If it hooks hard anything can break.

jewc75 said:

I dont trust the half ass plug welds on our axle tubes. Ive seen a couple tubes bend on auto cars, 1.6 to 1.7 60's. If it hooks hard anything can break.

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I fully agree with you. I've done some deeper reading on the subject in the thread Kelly wrote and I have done further research on the CHE brace. I thought the CHE brace would not work with the relocation brackets, but I got a tech call back from them this afternoon and I found out that they have modified their brace to accommodate the BMR relocation brackets. So that is great news and I am ordering one tomorrow. I also placed a call to VMP Performance and found out what they had done to Rebeccas super freaking fast car, and I was told they welded the axle tubes on hers some time back as well just to be safe. They recommended it as well for safety and for the guy in the other lane stating pretty much what you just said.

Sometimes Ford improves things like they did when they chose to use 31 spline axles in place of 28 when they released the 2005 GT. or the improvements in the chassis stiffness since the edge cars and before. They also added clearance holes in the caliper mount flange that now gives you clearance to install 3.15" ARP rear lug studs on your axles without pulling them, which has not always been there on 8.8's in the past. When they started doing this I do not know, but there is a clear difference between mine and older designs which do require the axles to be pulled to put in the NHRA longer required studs for running slicks. SO I was hoping they may have improved the assembly of the axle tubes as well as they have on the GT500 housing which is welded BTW.

So now its just a matter of getting the car in to S&M Motorsports and getting the work done when he has an opening.

Thanks again for all of the feedback. This is a great site. Another site only hit the thread one time wanting to know if I was PD. Thanks again for the help.

Yes, this site brings the tech for sure!

And yes, Chuck is correct about that. I sent him the set of LCA Brackets that you will see in the instructions quite some time ago, to ensure their brace would fit with our brackets. I told him I didnt want to make a competing part, so make the brace fit our brackets. He told me, he felt the same - that our brackets were the best for racers...and he wanted both to be compatible.

#TeamWork

CR when I shortened my housing I had my axle tubes welded. Shop used "pucks" and a steel bar to keep everything aligned during welding.

Nice work. The guy I am using is very meticulous. I expect nothing less than your quality workmanship on those axle tubes from him. He has a jig setup likely similar to what you are showing to ensure accurate alignment. This isn't some fly-by-night surface weld job with the rear wend still up under the car. This is a full blown pull out, tear down, align and weld to specification and properly done to ensure the weld takes being we are working with dissimilar metal types here. Thanks for the photos and sharing.

OP- what did your shop quote you for doing the tube weld, and then the axle brace? Have you giving much thought to upgrading gears? This would be a perfect time to do so, You are about 3 mph away from going into 4th assuming your using a 28inch tall tire and if your using a 26" tall your almost there now. 3.55's will carry the car to 152+/- and 3.73's will go about 147+/- in the 1/4 mile assuming your using a 28" tire. Even a good time for a trac lok rebuild.

Sorry but local facility is also a good friend so I won't discuss price. Plus he is giving me the opportunity to do the removal gut and assembly with his direction so I can apply what I know about setting gear lash in the machine tool world to this process and then be able to pull axles and do gear and carrier rebuilds myself. The car is shifting into fourth gear before crossing on a 28" tire with shift points right at 7200 RPM at each shift. I thought about a 3.31 or 3.55 but after discussing it with several running 6R80's with similar setups, and my tuner who I trust implicitly encourage me to stick with the 3.15. 2017 brings on the upgrade of the tranny including a Circle D 258mm 3C stall. There are plans to turn it up a bit more but not until some oil pump gears are installed as well as a crank timing gear. 620 RWHP is about as far as I wish to go if that high on the engine. Which should keep me well in the 10's which is as far as I wish to go anyway. As for carrier there is nothing better IMO and the opinion of others running deep 10's to high 8's in my area than rebuilding the stock carrier and adding an additional clutch disk during the install. It takes using 2 FRPP kits the first time but is the most effective and cheapest method. So I will do that once I feel the need to rebuild is upon me. The car only has 6900 miles on it.

The CHE brace is an easy install. But if you have a BMR adjustable rear sway bar then you do have to do a little fabricating on the passenger side. Basically have to cut the sway bar bracket in half or so and weld it to the mounting bracket of the brace.

jam07GT said:

The CHE brace is an easy install. But if you have a BMR adjustable rear sway bar then you do have to do a little fabricating on the passenger side. Basically have to cut the sway bar bracket in half or so and weld it to the mounting bracket of the brace.

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That has been corrected in the latest revision of this bracket. Kelly at BMR worked a deal with CHE and Charles at CHE verified with me Thursday that the bracket is now compliant with no mods to work with the BMR relo brackets. BMR wanted to introduce one but since it would look so much like a copy of the CHE bracket they worked deal with CHE so neither company was accused of Unauthorized Product Reproduction, AKA - copy catting. Got to respect both company's for that. A BMR revision installation procedure is also available on line at CHE Performance. Only thing that needs be done is drill two 3.8" holes on the drivers side (standard install instruction for either config) and of course the holes on the gussets up at the pinion where the bracket supports and mounts there in the event none are present. Thanks for the 411 however.

My stock carrier I had rebuilt as well when I swapped my gears out- It was toast at 5700 miles- 250 passes- wouldn't/couldn't do a burn out the end of last season. TVS don't need converters as quick as everyone thinks- And the transmissions are tuffer than people think, as long as there isn't a trans brake involved. plenty of guys going into the low 1.3's and 1.29 on the STOCK converter and trans. With minimum weight lose. Seems the 11-12 converters are a few .00th's quicker to 60 foot though in the coyote platform. But a aftermarket converter probably does save the internals of the stock engine by crutching it, by not having to throw maximum torque in the tune down low to get the car to 60' with the stock converter.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I may actually have 40 passes on this car total cine I bought it. The guy that owned it before me passed away so his wife traded it. I'm looking forward to a stall converter in the spring. VMP is telling me 3c if I plan on staying roughly where I am on HP and 2C if I start looking for more HP by going E85 or additives or race fuel. Really looking forward to getting my hands into this rear end next month. I'd love to go through it with it apart, but we are doing this in one day so time is of the essence. S&M motorsports is swamped so I am fortunate to get in 10/11/16. Thansk again for the 411. It gives me some comfort and somethign to think about.