engine build reccomendations with 93 octane in mind

v8venomgt

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right now as it sits i have an 08 bullitt with a THP single turbo kit running 10 psi on 93 with a tr6060 and it makes great power all things considered. tonight, im scooping up a low mile 08 3v longblock with the updated heads so i guess ill slowly start collecting parts for an engine build :clap:

first and foremost, this is not a max effort build in mind. its a street car that may see a few thousand miles a year. an occasional pass at the strip, but i am not a racer by any means. if anything i think i may be more interested in the annual half mile event because i'd like to lean on the car in the big end. im under the impression at least that a built motor with the right internals can withstand pulls in the 5th and 6th overdrive gears?

id like to continue to run 93 octane because it seems so consistent, reliable, and easy to find. race fuel is not on my radar at all, and i don't really want to run e85. ill leave it at that.

anyway i was looking at possibly of running a clean 03 cobra crank as i'd prefer to keep it a 4.6. i do know that there are guys running, and reusing the stock cast crank, but i'd just like to go with a nice forged unit since i'm in it. i'm intrigued by the k1 rods jpc is selling http://www.jpcracing.com/k1-h-beam-rods-5-933-4-6-and-coyote/ i havent researched them much but from what i've seen the ls crowd seems to really like them. are they as strong, or stronger than the 03 cobra/manley rods?

i am 100% lost on piston selection though. i have no idea whats best for a turbo application. flat tops, dished? ive read stories on here about broken ringlands more than once... also, what rings should i look too? i do plan on upgrading the oil pump to the TSS offering.

does that pretty much cover most of of the parts that i'd need to hand to an engine builder? also, what is the estimated ceiling on a turbo application with the above parts, on 93 octane? im assuming anywhere from 700-785 rwhp?
 
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eighty6gt

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Probably nothing harder on an engine than sustained turbo pulls in overdrive. I would call a piston manufacturer and have a chat, someone must know who has someone on staff with a brain who can chew the fat.
 

RED09GT

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You'll want a 2618 alloy and if a pin upgrade is available, it is probably cheap insurance.
I'm doing a similar build right now as soon as I get a few days at home. I've been running at 509 rwhp for 3 years so the stock shortblock is a ticking time bomb. I'm more of a drag racer and do a bunch of 1/8th mile stuff these days.
Here is what I have gathered so far:
Forged cobra crank
Eagle H beams, ARP 2000 rod bolts
Diamond 15cc dished pistons, upgraded pins
Comp 26113 springs
Bullet racing cams 227/[email protected]" .550 lift
Hand ported heads (just going to clean up the bowls and unshroud the valves, no major surgery)
Lock outs
TR6060
RST clutch
Steel flywheel

I'll run the precision PT6776 that came with the powerhouse kit for this year. I keep thinking of selling the 15 cc pistons but with a turbo and 94 octane, no ethanol gasoline, the lower compression isn't neccessarily a bad thing. I'm researching meth injection right now as it might be in my future as well.

Good luck with the build.
 

v8venomgt

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good info to have thus far. red99, what are the pros of the 2618 alloy? also what is your expected compression? i was thinking of a 10:1. i considered 11:1 but was suggested not to given my choice of fuel.

speaking of which i run a gt500 fuel system and SD 60s. seeing as i'm not after ridiculous power, what upgrades would that need? i personally woild choose not to go with a boost a pump combo.
 
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RED09GT

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good info to have thus far. red99, what are the pros of the 2618 alloy? also weekday is your expected compression? i was thinking of a 10:1. i considered 11:1 but was suggested not to given my choice of fuel.

speaking of which i run a gt500 fuel system and SD 60s. seeing as i'm not after ridiculous power, what upgrades would that need? i personally woild choose not to go with a boost a pump combo.
The 2618's are a lot tougher than the 4032's. The 4032's are a good choice for OE-like longetivity, can be fitted much tighter in the bores, and are much more emmissions friendly, but cannot withstand the abuse like the high-silica 2618's.
My opinion would be to keep the compression under 10:1 for 93 octane and high boost. I am planning on decking the block to a deck height of 0.004" and shaving 0.015-0.020 off the heads and I'll be right around 9.0:1

I am running GT500 pumps and SD 60's. I am planning on upgrading my lines just for a bit more headroom with this combo.
 
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v8venomgt

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thanks for the tech! it sounds like you and i have similar goals. redd99 do you have a build thread anywhere i could follow? also regarding your comment of high boat, at what point is high boat considered with a combo of 10.1 on 93?
 
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408Stang

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For pistons contact Nick at Gibtec Pistons in Denver, CO. 303-243-3340 They can make you a set of custom billet pistons for ANY application with ANY spec you want... Just ask. They will also come with upgraded wrist pins and Total Seal rings.

Here's the set I ordered. Price is very reasonable too.

a752d5bc3d62ee8eaa7d801c48f98c94.jpg

6e48c4fb701dc1ca53e13d060ae7321e.jpg

ead96ecf6a41074d72f542c3544bafeb.jpg


Also search for "Aluminator Gibtec Build" for an incredible build thread on the Modular Fords forum.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 

JeremyH

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Whats the power goal? IMO best turbo pistons are the diamond 2618. For street use, 93 and more boost I like to drop the compression for safety and reliability works great. Some manley h beams with arp 2000 hardware. What ever crank you want. Billet oil pump gears. Arp main and head studs. Been running that setup for 6 or so years now.
 
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v8venomgt

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cool, ill look into them but i can't say I've heard of them. my initial search was going to be for a nice set of weiscos.
 

travelers

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For pistons contact Nick at Gibtec Pistons in Denver, CO. 303-243-3340 They can make you a set of custom billet pistons for ANY application with ANY spec you want... Just ask. They will also come with upgraded wrist pins and Total Seal rings.

Here's the set I ordered. Price is very reasonable too.

a752d5bc3d62ee8eaa7d801c48f98c94.jpg

6e48c4fb701dc1ca53e13d060ae7321e.jpg

ead96ecf6a41074d72f542c3544bafeb.jpg


Also search for "Aluminator Gibtec Build" for an incredible build thread on the Modular Fords forum.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

What does a piston weigh?
 

Marble

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Whats the power goal? IMO best turbo pistons are the diamond 2618. For street use, 93 and more boost I like to drop the compression for safety and reliability works great. Some manley h beams with arp 2000 hardware. What ever crank you want. Billet oil pump gears. Arp main and head studs. Been running that setup for 6 or so years now.

That's basically my engine except it's an iron block. Stock displacement.
 

BruceH

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There are a lot of successful builds on this site. There are also some that haven't gone too well. A search on builds should turn up a whole lot of info.

FYI 2618 pistons are more forgiving when detonation occurs. They aren't as brittle as 4032 but do require a little bit of warm up because of the metal structure. It expands more than 4032 does and there is a little bit of blowby until they have come to temp and properly expanded. 2618 pistons will wear faster but in a high performance engine it's not that big of a deal.

If I was building a motor for a turbo I'd probably go with 2618 pistons and keep the compression between 9 and 10:1. The reason is because the success of a turbo largely depends on supporting equipment like a wastegate. If the wastegate doesn't work like planned the motor can be subject to additional stress and it's better to be prepared for it than to be looking at the carnage. Things like compressor surge can also throw a monkey wrench into the perfect tune even if it's not on the edge.
 

408Stang

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What does a piston weigh?
363 grams

The nice thing about these is they can make them any diameter, any ring package / stack height, any compression ratio, etc.... They are 100% custom built to the buyer's specs. You don't need to settle for standard over bore sizes, standard compression ratio's etc.

I had mine done with offset pin bosses, skirt coating, .200 wall pins, and a .25" top ring spacing, and a anti-flutter groove.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 

408Stang

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Here's a few more pics attached to Manley Pro-Billet Rods.

5804642637ac477da6341c66f3cfc9bd.jpg

b14ca20daecd0d57982d6fe88da8912c.jpg

aa3fff6b000d26aed0d4aaa18dda654f.jpg

848cd9e3ac15c46a0069b7b0e144e69d.jpg


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 

GTAmuscle

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For pistons contact Nick at Gibtec Pistons in Denver, CO. 303-243-3340 They can make you a set of custom billet pistons for ANY application with ANY spec you want... Just ask. They will also come with upgraded wrist pins and Total Seal rings.

Here's the set I ordered. Price is very reasonable too.

a752d5bc3d62ee8eaa7d801c48f98c94.jpg

6e48c4fb701dc1ca53e13d060ae7321e.jpg

ead96ecf6a41074d72f542c3544bafeb.jpg


Also search for "Aluminator Gibtec Build" for an incredible build thread on the Modular Fords forum.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk



Great info, and when I finally get my engine build going I'll have some local pistons, gotta love it.
 

408Stang

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Great info, and when I finally get my engine build going I'll have some local pistons, gotta love it.
If you are in Denver you should go to the Gibtec facility to check it out, it's actually in a bigger building / business called Western Motorsports. They also can make custom rods, cranks, etc. It's clean like a hospital with gobs of machines and piles of billet stock.

When they made my pistons I brought my cylinder heads down and they digitally scanned them to get the combustion chamber shape and valve reliefs etc.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
 

v8venomgt

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There are a lot of successful builds on this site. There are also some that haven't gone too well. A search on builds should turn up a whole lot of info.

FYI 2618 pistons are more forgiving when detonation occurs. They aren't as brittle as 4032 but do require a little bit of warm up because of the metal structure. It expands more than 4032 does and there is a little bit of blowby until they have come to temp and properly expanded. 2618 pistons will wear faster but in a high performance engine it's not that big of a deal.

If I was building a motor for a turbo I'd probably go with 2618 pistons and keep the compression between 9 and 10:1. The reason is because the success of a turbo largely depends on supporting equipment like a wastegate. If the wastegate doesn't work like planned the motor can be subject to additional stress and it's better to be prepared for it than to be looking at the carnage. Things like compressor surge can also throw a monkey wrench into the perfect tune even if it's not on the edge.

bruce, thanks for shedding some light on the metal theory. i wasnt quite aware of that. i do tend to think and agree that the 2618s may be my best option. fwiw, i was considering this rotating assembly http://www.modularheadshop.com/i-24.../www.modularheadshop.com/search-3.html?q=2618
 

BruceH

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bruce, thanks for shedding some light on the metal theory. i wasnt quite aware of that. i do tend to think and agree that the 2618s may be my best option. fwiw, i was considering this rotating assembly http://www.modularheadshop.com/i-24.../www.modularheadshop.com/search-3.html?q=2618

Weisco pistons are well made and have a skirt coating. I wouldn't put the money up for the rods though. There are very good rods available for $300 - $400 with arp 2000 bolts.

All of the mod motor rods are forged in China, even Manley. There are many that are finish machined in the US and the machining is what counts.

Stock stroke stock crank, pistons and rings of your choosing, and ebay rods with arp 2000 bolts. That's where I'd start. Figuring out bearings isn't a big deal. Rod and main bearings will run you about $125 or less for good bearings. IMO stock or stock like bearings with stock like material are better than race bearings.

It all depends on what you think is important in the build. If you think it's important than it's worth it to pay for what you want.

In the end you make decisions and hope it all works out. I wish you the best no matter what you go with.
 

46addict

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speaking of which i run a gt500 fuel system and SD 60s. seeing as i'm not after ridiculous power, what upgrades would that need? i personally woild choose not to go with a boost a pump combo.

Your current fuel setup won't take you to the max potential of 93 octane. You're going to want larger injectors and/or get larger pumps for the hat you're using.

Another option for the crank is to get the Coyote crank for a slight bump in displacement. But polishing the stock crank and reusing it will work just fine.
 

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