poly vs rod ends, strut tower brace and panhard bar questions

Dylan is begging to help.

Gotta love that guy!

Rapture, feel free to give us a ring if you have any further questions brother. We are here to help!

BMR Tech said:

Dylan is begging to help.

Gotta love that guy!

Rapture, feel free to give us a ring if you have any further questions brother. We are here to help!

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Will do. Thanks buddy

BMR Tech 2 said:

Just go with poly then. I recommend our poly LCAs up to ~700 RWHP/RWTQ, so they'll be able to handle N/A with ease. If you plan on doing auto-x/road course stuff, it would probably be a good idea to grab a set of poly/bearing LCAs since lots of cornering will wear the bushings out quicker.



Panhard bar, either do a poly/poly bar or the poly/bearing bar.

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http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-adjustable-panhard-poly-red-rod-0514.html

Is this the poly/bearing. Trying to figure out why it only has a few reviews and not so good ratings. Is it because it's not as comfortable of a ride ride compared too...

http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-panhard-rod-adjustable-poly-red-0514.html

Which has many many reviews and top ratings. Are those 2 both the same shade of red? Poly/poly looks darker.

Can't decide between these 2. Need to order today. Couple other questions.

Do they come greased?

What's the benefit of double adjustable?

Is rod end, spherical, and bearing the same thing?

Do you think I need to weld in my granetelli shock tower brace?

P.S. you guys should make a shock tower brace that is just like your other products. I think the granaetelli is only 1 inch. I was looking for something beefier back there.

I also want someone to confirm this.

For panhard axle adjustment if my driver side is pushed out a bit that would also mean the the passenger side is pushed in a bit, correct?

So after I adjust they both should move toward the passenger side about half of the distance they were pushed in/out before resulting in a centered axle, correct?

You only need adjustable LCA if your thrust angle is screwed up from an accident or you're trying to compensate for launching with huge amounts of power.

I really don't think you need rod ends/spherical bearings.

Sky Render said:

You only need adjustable LCA if your thrust angle is screwed up from an accident or you're trying to compensate for launching with huge amounts of power.

I really don't think you need rod ends/spherical bearings.

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Good info to know. I won't consider adjustable control arms then

Rapture said:

http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-adjustable-panhard-poly-red-rod-0514.html

Is this the poly/bearing. Trying to figure out why it only has a few reviews and not so good ratings. Is it because it's not as comfortable of a ride ride compared too...

http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-panhard-rod-adjustable-poly-red-0514.html

Which has many many reviews and top ratings. Are those 2 both the same shade of red? Poly/poly looks darker.

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My guess is that the poly/rod-end combination lets more differential gear noise into the cabin. Possibly some noise from clearance in the rod end as well (rattle). Not sure how the exact color matters here unless it's an indication of slightly different Durometer poly.

Need to order today.

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A little more lead time for responses, please.

Do they come greased?

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Doesn't really matter, as they'll need periodic re-lubing anyway.

What's the benefit of double adjustable?

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You don't have to unbolt one end to make adjustments. But with single-adjustables even if the nut/jam nut loosens up, the adjustment can't drift very far.

Is rod end, spherical, and bearing the same thing?

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Not necessarily. There are spherical pivots that are not rod ends.


As for LCAs and road course or autocross, I'd go with poly/spherical to eliminate the roll bind that poly/poly can and will introduce. Roll stiffnesses should be coming from springs, sta-bars, and (dynamically) shocks & struts, not bushings.


Norm

Thanks Norm.

I noticed you said periodic and not frequent for greasing. Every oil change or so?

What else can I grease while I'm down there?

Any preference for grease? I've heard some are bad for poly

I ordered the poly/poly BMR panhard bar

Sky Render said:

You only need adjustable LCA if your thrust angle is screwed up from an accident or you're trying to compensate for launching with huge amounts of power.

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Or correcting pinion angle after significant lowering . . .


Norm

Rapture said:

Thanks Norm.

I noticed you said periodic and not frequent for greasing. Every oil change or so?

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Couple, maybe three times a year. Depends on how many miles you drive and probably on how many rainy days (or snow/slush if that's a possibility). I usually hit the greasable pivots (on my car that's the rear LCAs) once before track season and again around the end of summer. Maybe once more during a particularly active track day season (for me, that's a split season, before the second week of June and after Labor Day through December).

What else can I grease while I'm down there?

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Sta-bar bushings/pivots if they're polyurethane or greasable. I use 3M silicone paste on the drop link bushings and bar end pivots (Strano/Hellwig bar).

Any preference for grease? I've heard some are bad for poly

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Not sure what I was using in the LCAs, but whatever it was I ran out of it last fall and haven't replenished the grease gun yet. Should probably put that on today's to-do list.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

Or correcting pinion angle after significant lowering . . .


Norm

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The preferred method is by using an adjustable upper control arm because it 1) is a single adjustment that doesn't affect thrust angle and 2) doesn't affect wheelbase.

PA adjustment at the UCA is certainly going to be simpler. Installation of the UCA itself, perhaps not, never mind that the articulation required for hard cornering argues against the use of polyurethane bushings (at either end of it, actually). That leaves some sort of spherical/spherical arrangement, which is probably too hardcore-race for most people.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

PA adjustment at the UCA is certainly going to be simpler. Installation of the UCA itself, perhaps not, never mind that the articulation required for hard cornering argues against the use of polyurethane bushings (at either end of it, actually). That leaves some sort of spherical/spherical arrangement, which is probably too hardcore-race for most people.


Norm

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Do you have spherical on yours?

Honestly, most of the drivers out there will never have their car at the track, I think poly /poly is a massive upgrade over the rubber bushings, and is the best bang for the buck for street use and minimizes the "what's this noise from"? posts

I have poly/spherical LCAs. I did have to re-adjust one of them exactly once after the initial installation for thrust angle purposes.

The UCA is still OE because my driving never gets into wheel hop intentionally, so there's nothing there for the usual UCA upgrade to fix. But I need as much easy articulation in the pivots for that short UCA as possible for the moderately hard to all-out hard cornering that the car does see. Eventually, a spherical/spherical will probably end up there, noise be damned on a car that has seen up to 20% track miles in any given year.


The ideal road course UCA is almost certainly going to be the later year version (it's slightly longer), together with the appropriate bracket and some sort of spherical diff-side pivot. A side benefit to the spherical/spherical arrangement is that the nut/jam nut holding the adjustment will be less likely to loosen when the chassis rolls in the corners (this has happened to some folks, sometimes repeatedly).


Norm

Mustang dog said:

Honestly, most of the drivers out there will never have their car at the track

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A road course car is exactly what this OP is building . . .


Norm

Sorry, I meant the same. ( however I change my post if it is dedicated road course car spherical all the way ) otherwise I'm still behind the poly/poly design.

Mustang dog said:

Sorry, I meant the same. ( however I change my post if it is dedicated road course car spherical all the way ) otherwise I'm still behind the poly/poly design.

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As of right now it's still a street car. It's more a street car than a track car. I was hoping to flip that around with these next mods.

Do you think that spherical/spherical are gonna be to rough for the street? are they only good for smooth tracks?

Spherical will be kinda rough and noisy on the street. I don't usually recommend it unless you're making big power (700 RWHP). Poly/bearing stuff is perfect for someone who wants to drive their car on the street and on the track. The poly bushings keep everything nice and quiet, while the bearing gives you all the articulation you need. You can use poly/poly on the road course, but you will probably be replacing bushings more frequently than most.

The poor review on the poly/rod bar is because the metal spacers on the bearing end do not give like poly bushings will. When the factory bar is installed and the bolts torqued, it crushes the mounting point a little bit. When you try to slide our bearing spacers in WITHOUT spreading the mounting point a little bit, it's probably going to be tough to get it in (lol).

Our bushings do not come pre-greased. You will have to grease them every 5-10k miles (depending on use and grease used) with a good quality SYNTHETIC grease. No petroleum based greases or you may prematurely wear the bushings.