Cam Tech Thread

Good job

Been kinda talking camshaft and timing stuff in another thread I started. Thought this thread might share some light or have some more insight seeing it is dealing with cam tech.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62611&page=5

Just tring to understand if there is any correct or wrong way of tearing down the front timing componets to replace my oil pump and install lockouts in the VCT?

Been told different ways of releasing the tension on the cams before taking the chains off. One is to remove the followers allowing the cams to move freely without tension placed by the springs and followers and then remove. Seems more involved and requires a spring compressor that I dont have.

The other is to allow the cams to release on there own. To remove the tensioner's bolts and allow the cam to buck or release and settle to rest. Then remove the timing componets and replace the parts needed. Then when it comes time to install the chains back. Line up the marks on the chain and the crank already at 6 o'clock and the marks on the VCT sprockets with a ratchet if needed to get it back aligned with the marks on the sprocket from were it was released.

I guess my real consern with the second way is will the release of the cams damage the valves in anyway, is it possible for them to hit the pistons when released? Looks like they do this all the time with cam swaps on the motors with the wedge. Can be seen at 2:25 in the video Lightblade posted up, the cams releasing to rest.

Well when I changed my chains,tensioners, ect... I did it the second way. When I took off the driver side chain the cam didnt move, but when I did the passenger side the cam moved 4 teeth to the left. When I put the chain back on I just used a socket on the phaser bolt to line the marks back up. I also cranked the car over a few times to prime the tensioners, and that was it.

Im sure the other way is the way it is "supposed" to be done, but either way will work.

CraigNnem said:

Well when I changed my chains,tensioners, ect... I did it the second way. When I took off the driver side chain the cam didnt move, but when I did the passenger side the cam moved 4 teeth to the left. When I put the chain back on I just used a socket on the phaser bolt to line the marks back up. I also cranked the car over a few times to prime the tensioners, and that was it.

Im sure the other way is the way it is "supposed" to be done, but either way will work.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

Did you turn the motor until the stock marked link on the chains matched back up with the marks on the sprockets and crank? Or did you just set the crank marks to 6 o"clock and the cam marks up and just mark the chain as it sit and reinstall back on the marks? Sounds like the cams don't move much at all, so no possible valve train clearance problems?

No, I turned it until all the stock chain & phaser marks lined up. It took about 40 something turns too. Be really carefull not to pass it up either or it will take another 60 something turns to get back to them.

CraigNnem said:

No, I turned it until all the stock chain & phaser marks lined up. It took about 40 something turns too. Be really carefull not to pass it up either or it will take another 60 something turns to get back to them.

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LOL.... So they will line back up, might just take 40 turns or so to get it there?

60 something, once you pass it up.

It took me 40 something from the spot when I turned the car off. It mihgt take you less than that depending on where the marks are when you shut the engine off, but no more than 60 something turns are the maximum amount of turns it will take.

CraigNnem said:

60 something, once you pass it up.

It took me 40 something from the spot when I turned the car off. It mihgt take you less than that depending on where the marks are when you shut the engine off, but no more than 60 something turns are the maximum amount of turns it will take.

Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks for the info.

Just really scared of messing something up. Would hate release the cams and hit a valve or something crazy. The video shows it clear as day the cams releasing on there own from the tension place by the followers. Looks as how cams are swaped all the time with a wedge and hand tools.

Greg Hazlett said:

BZ Jeremy!

Now we need a sub thread on why the Hot Rod/Detroit Rockers would not work well with FI.

Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they?

sub'd

Sherrod, I have done 3 cam swaps and never used the spring tool to remove followers. We did it the same way as the video except in the ford tech manual in shows you how to align the cam before removal so you have the least amount of pressure on the springs/followers, thats what we did. Worked fine. The cam is keyed to the phaser sprocket. So as long as you orient the new cam the same way the old cam was and then mark the chain/phaser and put it back the same way it will only go togther one way. The front of the cam has a key on the bottom just like a crank pulley. You use the physical placement of the first 3 lobes on each side to tell. Also, doing one side at a time makes this way easier.

Here are fords instructions and pics of what I'm talking about.

http://home.comcast.net/~cookpaging/hammeron/cams/misc/FordCamInstall.pdf

Driver side orientation





Passenger side orientation

Heres a good link to some more writeups and install directions.

http://mustangforums.com/forum/gt-s197-general-discussion/475980-hot-rod-cam-installation-guide.html

Mikes_BLK_GT said:

Why wouldn't they?

sub'd

Click to expand...

Not to drag this out again, but traditionaly the "camming" sound is a side effect or drawback if you will of big cams with high lift and aggressive lobe profiles that make monster power up top on a drag car.

Hot rods,detroit rockers,thumpers etc, "noise maker" cams are very mild nsr (no springs required) cams with tighter lsa's and lots of valve overlap at idle that are designed to replicate the traditional "camming" sound. Now dont anybody go get on the offensive becasue I said they were noise maker cams becuase i know you guys like them and they do make more peak power as they should with more lift and tighter than stock lsa which brings peak power up higher in the rpm range. This is great for a n/a and may work okay with a centri supercharger after you get past the suffered idle quality and drivebaility stuff which a good tuner should eventually be able to work out.

This style cam in general is less than optimal for a power adder car, specificaly a twin screw/roots/turbo that generates full boost in the low/mid rpm range. The increase in closed valve overlap from the tighter lsa(both intake and exhuast valves closed at the same time longer) will restrict flow/boost in the low/mid range and effect power band. These power adders generate peak torque down low on their own as a results of making full boost down low and dont need the cam to shift the peak torque lower in the rpm range. Which defeats the purpose.

Will these cams make more peak numbers on the dyno, sure, can they be tuned around, yup. Do poeple use them with power adders, yup. But they are not the optimal cam for this application as stated.

Thanks for the info!

Formula for cam lope

Intake duration + Exaust duration, divided by 4, - LSA, x 2

The higher the final number, the more lope the cam will have

Posting this here from another thread. To keep the info in one spot.

remainvayne said:

BBR Stage 2's were developed with Turbo in mind...

Click to expand...

I would not say that at all. They are a n/a cam that will work great with a blower and work fine with a turbo but they are defiently not close to turbo specific cams.

Too much duration on the exhaust side for the lift (bbr stage2 have 284/294) and could use another degree of lsa ( from 114 to 115-116). A turbo specific cams needs less lift on the exhuast side as well, less ex duration ( not much more than intake duration) and a wide lsa, all this will promote better spool and tq down low that will carry hp up top.

So basicly if 240/250 is good for na/blower a turbo will want something more like 240/244.

Also most na/blower cams run the same lift in/ex ie .490/.490. A turbo cam will want little more lift on intake and less on exhuast ie .500/.490.

Most companies dont offer a turbo cam for this reason unless you custom order one as the specs to optimize a turbo cam are a bit different than what you want for n/a or blower.

This doesnt mean that a cam with more exhuast duration and a little less lsa wont work decent but its def not optimized for a turbo setup.

My 127300 cams are a compromise they are still a milder cam when it comes to profile and lift and they worked good for the year i had them when i was n/a and they work fine with the turbo. Im making good power with them but my peak tq is suffereing a little. Stock cams would bring my power down and my tq back up.

subd

These are all the specs I could find from searching on the net, so please correct me if any are wrong:

This is by no means a complete list, I focused on NA cams when I made it, and left out the adv durations.


[FONT=&quot]Stock:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 196/221 @ .050” duration, .439/.439, 117.25 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BBR stage 1: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]227/233 @ .050" duration, .480/.480, 114 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BBR stage 2: [/FONT][FONT=&quot] 241/251 .050" duration, .492/.492, 114 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 1: [/FONT][FONT=&quot] 214/227 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 114 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cam XFI NSR stage 2: [/FONT][FONT=&quot] 222/235 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 115.5 LSA
Comp Cam XFI VSR stage 1: 214/227 @ .050” duration, .480/.470, 114 LSA
Comp Cam XFI VSR stage 2: 222/235 @ .050” duration, .490/.480, 115.5 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cam XFI SPR stage 1: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]221/228 @ .050” duration, .523/.538, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cam XFI SPR stage 2: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]229/236 @ .050” duration, .535/.550, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cam XFI SPR stage 3: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]237/244 @ .050” duration, .547/.560, 112 LSA
FRPP Hot Rod Cams: 221/240 @ .050” duration, .472/.472, 110 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AFM N73:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 232/244 @ .050” duration, .492/.492, 110 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AFM N93:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 240/252 @ .050” duration, .492/.492, 108 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Livernois Stage 1 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 221/228 @ .050” duration, .523/.538, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Livernois Stage 2 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 229/236 @ .050” duration, .535/.550, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Livernois Stage 3 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 237/244 @ .050” duration, .547/.560, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Livernois Stage 4 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 245/256 @ .050” duration, .559/.560, 112 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cams Thumpr:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 226/246 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 109 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cams Mutha Thumpr:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 234/254 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 109 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comp Cams Big Mutha Thumpr:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 242/262 @ .050” duration, .450/.450, 109 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Crower Stage 1 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 208/222 @ .050” duration, .480/.468, 114 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Crower Stage 2 Supercharged/N2O:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 220/236 @ .050” duration, .492/.492, 114 LSA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Crower Stage 3 NA:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 222/248 @ .050” duration, .490/.502, 114 LSA[/FONT]

Stock cams are 117.25 lsa.

edited, thx.

Thanks for the post TheKid760!