groundpounder
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Jason over at Department of Boost is looking for those interested in upgrading the cooling efficiency on their PD blower. I think that the word needs to get out, I was not asked to post this. Here's what they are.....
These will work on every single 3v positive displacement blower kit. Any year 4.6 or 5.4 3v
What they do:
The spacers go between your intake manifold and the cylinder heads. The spacers are made out of a composite. The same stuff that the OEM intake manifolds are made from.
The manifold bolts directly to the cylinder heads. Cylinder heads are HOT. 195-235deg. Aluminum is a fantastic conductor of heat. The problem with bolting an aluminum intake manifold to 195+deg aluminum cylinder heads is that the intake manifold quickly heats up. That hot manifold in turn heats up the air inside it, which is your intake air....... that you want to keep cool. If at all possible you want to keep your intake air temperatures down below 100deg. That is nearly impossible when the "box" (the manifold) you are running them through is anywhere from 180-200deg. The spacers are a heat barrier. Heat has a very hard time passing through the composite material we chose. That means far far less heat is transferred to the body of the intake manifold, which means far far less heat is transferred to the intake air charge.
That is not the only advantage though. The intercooler (all intercoolers as far as we know) are attached directly to the intake manifold. The manifold is aluminum, the intercooler is aluminum. The intercooler has cool water running through it, the manifold is hot. What ends up happening is that the intercooler uses some of its ability (more than you would think) to extract heat to cool the body of the intake manifold. That is not the intercoolers job, its job is to cool the air coming out of the blower. If the intercooler is using its LIMITED ability to extract heat to cool the intake manifold body it's not doing a very good of a job at what it's supposed to be doing, and that is cooling the air coming out of the blower. Additionally, if the intercooler is cooling the body of the intake manifold there will be more heat in the water. More heat in the water means that it will not do as good of a job cooling the intake air temps. In short, cooler water is better. And with the composite spacers the water in the intercooler system will always be cooler.
We have never run these particular spacers on a car to check their performance. But, our GT550 (Coyote) and 3v R-Spec manifolds use this same material as part of the intake manifold where they bolt to the heads. The GT550 and 3v R-Spec work very, very well. They have the lowest intake air temps of any blower kit we have encountered, by quite a margin. The spacers achieve the same thing as the heat barriers built into the GT550 and 3v R-Spec manifolds.
How Well Do They Perform? What sort of reduction in intake air temperatures will you see? Good question, which there is no easy answer for. The spacers are part of a system/combination (intercooler, line size, pump type, heat exchanger size, etc). Different combinations will get you different results. Think of the spacers as camshafts, or cylinder heads, or a big throttle body, big exhaust, etc. If you have a stock motor and you throw big lumpy race cams at it you will get a power increase. If you put a set of big race ported heads on you will get a power increase. Same thing for exhaust, intakes, throttle bodies, etc. Each one will get you more power. But, if you put them all on as a "system" you will get a power increase greater than what the individual parts will get you if you added them individually. The following math is all made up to illustrate the example. If you have six mods (heads, cams, etc) and they all get you a 5hp increase by themselves you would think that adding them all together at the same time would get you a total of 30hp in gains (6 mods x 5hp/mod = 30hp). But this isn't how systems work. If you put all of them together and achieve "synergy" you may see a mod combination of 60hp. The spacers work the same way. Depending on what your combination is of intercooler system parts and how much boost you're making (boost = heat) you will get slightly different results. So, what can you expect?
As noted above we don't have any data on putting these spacers on let's say a Department Of Boost GT450 kit, Whipple 2.3L, Kenne Bell 2.6L, etc. What we do have is data from cars using our GT550 (Coyote) or 3v R-Spec kits with the same type of heat barrier. We're seeing cruising IAT's between 8 and 20deg over ambient. The 8deg over is going to be something with a good size heat exchanger and a lot of water flow (18gpm). The 20deg over is something with a good size heat exchanger and middle of the road water flow (11gpm). We don't have any data for something with a small heat exchanger and entry level water flow (6gpm). For comparison sake most positive displacement blower kits out of the box run at 40-70deg over ambient. With a good heat exchanger and pump they run in the 35-60deg over ambient range. Thirty-five being rare. So, you're looking at a good size improvement. Switching to a big heat exchanger or pump is not a "silver bullet" solution to intake air temps, nothing is. Intake air temps can only be beaten by attacking them with a systems approach and from every angle. These spacers are a part of that system.
"Hey, my GT450 or Roush kit has coolant running through the manifold. Won't this negate the benefits of the spacers?" Good questions. Some of the blower kits (not many) have the engine coolant running through the intake manifold. Of course, this means that the intake manifold will still have a "heat load" on it even with the spacers. The short answer is that no, the spacers will not be as effective as they would on a manifold with no coolant in it. But it's not as bad as you would think. The cylinder heads run very hot. Even with a 160deg thermostat in we have never seen a cylinder head temp under 195deg (we're constantly measuring stuff with a laser pyrometer). So, the heads are pretty hot (225deg is not that uncommon). If you have a manifold that has coolant running through it you have two heat sources. You have the cylinder heads transferring heat. And you have the coolant transferring heat. The spacers take care of the heads, which are by far the hottest and represent a large transfer surface area. The coolant is at a much lower temp (if you're running a 160deg thermostat, which you should be). Yes, the coolant will transfer heat, but it doesn't have nearly the impact that the heads do. Additionally, your under-hood temps are a lot hotter than you think they are. 160-180deg under-hood temps are the norm unless you have a VERY vented hood. So yes, the coolant running through the manifold is not helping the manifold temp. But, the manifold exists in an environment (under-hood temps) where it's soaking up heat anyway. Yes, water transfers heat faster than air so a 160deg water temp will heat the manifold up faster than 160deg air will, so It's not ideal (what ever is?). But there will be times where your under-hood temps are higher than 160deg and in theory the coolant running through the manifold will actually be helping keep the manifold temp down. This is all educated guestimate stuff though. We don't have any science to back this up. All of that said, yes, the spacers won't have the same impact on a manifold with coolant running through it. But, you could then make the argument that manifolds with coolant running through them need the spacers MORE.
Are the spacers a good cost/performance buy? Yes, I think so (or I wouldn't be doing them). I've run an incredible amount of heat exchangers, water pumps, line sizes, fans, etc. over the past 11yrs while messing with trying to keep these cars cool. As mentioned above there is no "silver" bullet. It's always a combination of improvements that make for good cooling. If you throw a big heat exchanger at your car will you see a big change? No. If you throw a good pump at your car will you see a big change? No. You will see improvement, but not anything jaw dropping. I will guestimate that the spacers make the same impact that a big heat exchanger or water pump makes (when making one mod at a time). The spacers are far less money than most of the top shelf heat exchangers and land right in the middle of what a good pump costs. So, are they worth it? Yeah, they are worth it as much as any other intercooler system upgrade. The big factor is this will probably be the only time you can get these. You can tackle the rest of the intercooler system at any time.
What Involved With Running Them?
---They're 1/2" thick. This means your blower/manifold will be 1/2" higher. If you are going to run into hood clearance issues you will need drop urethane engine mounts. The good news is that you really want drop urethane engine mounts anyway because they have multiple benefits. Here is a link to why you want drop urethane engine mounts anyway: Click Here For Link
I stock and sell UPR engine mounts for the blower kits. So, if you need engine mounts with your spacers I can supply them all in one go during the group buy for $140 (which is $20 off).
---You will need longer fasteners for your intake manifold (1/2" longer). I can supply them for people with Department Of Boost GT450 kits without any trouble because I know what fasteners they come with originally. I can supply fasteners for other kits too, but I need to know what they have in them originally. Getting this information may be as easy as looking through the instructions (which I don't have) or worse case removing one/some and measuring them. So, I can supply fasteners for all of the kits. But, I'm going to need someone to step up and get me the information I need.
---You will need a 1" longer belt.........maybe. This is a non-issue for people with GT450 kits because like the fasteners I have all of the information needed. This may be a little tricky for other kits because some of the blower companies don't actually tell you how long their belt is (they want you buying belts from them). There are a couple of ways to go about this. You can measure your belt (or get the measurement from someone else), buy a 1" longer belt and be all set. You may, depending on how your belt system is set up, be able to replace the ribbed idler next to the power steering pump pulley with a 76mm smooth idler ($15 ish), rout the belt over it opposed to under it and "gain" that inch you need. In some case you can replace the 90mm idler on the passenger side with a 76mm idler and "gain" some belt length too. Another option is to run a Department Of Boost Frankentensioner. The Frankentensioner has a lot more travel than every tensioner we have ever seen. That means your 1" "too short" belt will put the Frankentensioner in the middle of it's travel where if you're using another tensioner it will be bottomed out (won't fit). There is of course no one size fits all though. You may still need to mess with belt setup a little even with the Frankentensioner. The upside is that you will get the most effective tensioner available and it will give you the opportunity to set your belt tensioner up correctly (which it probably isn't right now). Here is a link to the Frankentensioner and a write up on why it's so good at what it does: Click Here For Link
Group Buy Information:
This group buy is going to be a little different than ones in the past because unless I get 100 orders it won't happen.
-The group buy is going to run from right now (12/6/17) to January 31st 2018.
-Production will be done by the end of February 2018 and then they will ship.
-To get in on the group buy I will need a $25 deposit by PayPal. This will ensure I have a little more commitment than "I'm in bro!". When the group buy is about to expire (late January) I will get the balances. If by the closing date of the group buy I don't have 100 orders I will refund your $25 in full.
-The spacers are $350 shipped in the CONUS (if international email me for a shipping quote).
-If you want fasteners add $15.
-If you want drop urethane engine mounts add $140.
-If you want a Frankentensioner Stage I add $40.
-If you want a Frankentensioner Stage II add $90.
If you want to get in on the group buy please email me at [email protected].
I am in no way connected to this group buy other than I am in for a set. If this will be the only run ever of these parts I think a lot of PD guys will want these. If the Mods deem this post to be in violation of the forum rules, my apologies and please either move or delete.What they do:
The spacers go between your intake manifold and the cylinder heads. The spacers are made out of a composite. The same stuff that the OEM intake manifolds are made from.
The manifold bolts directly to the cylinder heads. Cylinder heads are HOT. 195-235deg. Aluminum is a fantastic conductor of heat. The problem with bolting an aluminum intake manifold to 195+deg aluminum cylinder heads is that the intake manifold quickly heats up. That hot manifold in turn heats up the air inside it, which is your intake air....... that you want to keep cool. If at all possible you want to keep your intake air temperatures down below 100deg. That is nearly impossible when the "box" (the manifold) you are running them through is anywhere from 180-200deg. The spacers are a heat barrier. Heat has a very hard time passing through the composite material we chose. That means far far less heat is transferred to the body of the intake manifold, which means far far less heat is transferred to the intake air charge.
That is not the only advantage though. The intercooler (all intercoolers as far as we know) are attached directly to the intake manifold. The manifold is aluminum, the intercooler is aluminum. The intercooler has cool water running through it, the manifold is hot. What ends up happening is that the intercooler uses some of its ability (more than you would think) to extract heat to cool the body of the intake manifold. That is not the intercoolers job, its job is to cool the air coming out of the blower. If the intercooler is using its LIMITED ability to extract heat to cool the intake manifold body it's not doing a very good of a job at what it's supposed to be doing, and that is cooling the air coming out of the blower. Additionally, if the intercooler is cooling the body of the intake manifold there will be more heat in the water. More heat in the water means that it will not do as good of a job cooling the intake air temps. In short, cooler water is better. And with the composite spacers the water in the intercooler system will always be cooler.
We have never run these particular spacers on a car to check their performance. But, our GT550 (Coyote) and 3v R-Spec manifolds use this same material as part of the intake manifold where they bolt to the heads. The GT550 and 3v R-Spec work very, very well. They have the lowest intake air temps of any blower kit we have encountered, by quite a margin. The spacers achieve the same thing as the heat barriers built into the GT550 and 3v R-Spec manifolds.
How Well Do They Perform? What sort of reduction in intake air temperatures will you see? Good question, which there is no easy answer for. The spacers are part of a system/combination (intercooler, line size, pump type, heat exchanger size, etc). Different combinations will get you different results. Think of the spacers as camshafts, or cylinder heads, or a big throttle body, big exhaust, etc. If you have a stock motor and you throw big lumpy race cams at it you will get a power increase. If you put a set of big race ported heads on you will get a power increase. Same thing for exhaust, intakes, throttle bodies, etc. Each one will get you more power. But, if you put them all on as a "system" you will get a power increase greater than what the individual parts will get you if you added them individually. The following math is all made up to illustrate the example. If you have six mods (heads, cams, etc) and they all get you a 5hp increase by themselves you would think that adding them all together at the same time would get you a total of 30hp in gains (6 mods x 5hp/mod = 30hp). But this isn't how systems work. If you put all of them together and achieve "synergy" you may see a mod combination of 60hp. The spacers work the same way. Depending on what your combination is of intercooler system parts and how much boost you're making (boost = heat) you will get slightly different results. So, what can you expect?
As noted above we don't have any data on putting these spacers on let's say a Department Of Boost GT450 kit, Whipple 2.3L, Kenne Bell 2.6L, etc. What we do have is data from cars using our GT550 (Coyote) or 3v R-Spec kits with the same type of heat barrier. We're seeing cruising IAT's between 8 and 20deg over ambient. The 8deg over is going to be something with a good size heat exchanger and a lot of water flow (18gpm). The 20deg over is something with a good size heat exchanger and middle of the road water flow (11gpm). We don't have any data for something with a small heat exchanger and entry level water flow (6gpm). For comparison sake most positive displacement blower kits out of the box run at 40-70deg over ambient. With a good heat exchanger and pump they run in the 35-60deg over ambient range. Thirty-five being rare. So, you're looking at a good size improvement. Switching to a big heat exchanger or pump is not a "silver bullet" solution to intake air temps, nothing is. Intake air temps can only be beaten by attacking them with a systems approach and from every angle. These spacers are a part of that system.
"Hey, my GT450 or Roush kit has coolant running through the manifold. Won't this negate the benefits of the spacers?" Good questions. Some of the blower kits (not many) have the engine coolant running through the intake manifold. Of course, this means that the intake manifold will still have a "heat load" on it even with the spacers. The short answer is that no, the spacers will not be as effective as they would on a manifold with no coolant in it. But it's not as bad as you would think. The cylinder heads run very hot. Even with a 160deg thermostat in we have never seen a cylinder head temp under 195deg (we're constantly measuring stuff with a laser pyrometer). So, the heads are pretty hot (225deg is not that uncommon). If you have a manifold that has coolant running through it you have two heat sources. You have the cylinder heads transferring heat. And you have the coolant transferring heat. The spacers take care of the heads, which are by far the hottest and represent a large transfer surface area. The coolant is at a much lower temp (if you're running a 160deg thermostat, which you should be). Yes, the coolant will transfer heat, but it doesn't have nearly the impact that the heads do. Additionally, your under-hood temps are a lot hotter than you think they are. 160-180deg under-hood temps are the norm unless you have a VERY vented hood. So yes, the coolant running through the manifold is not helping the manifold temp. But, the manifold exists in an environment (under-hood temps) where it's soaking up heat anyway. Yes, water transfers heat faster than air so a 160deg water temp will heat the manifold up faster than 160deg air will, so It's not ideal (what ever is?). But there will be times where your under-hood temps are higher than 160deg and in theory the coolant running through the manifold will actually be helping keep the manifold temp down. This is all educated guestimate stuff though. We don't have any science to back this up. All of that said, yes, the spacers won't have the same impact on a manifold with coolant running through it. But, you could then make the argument that manifolds with coolant running through them need the spacers MORE.
Are the spacers a good cost/performance buy? Yes, I think so (or I wouldn't be doing them). I've run an incredible amount of heat exchangers, water pumps, line sizes, fans, etc. over the past 11yrs while messing with trying to keep these cars cool. As mentioned above there is no "silver" bullet. It's always a combination of improvements that make for good cooling. If you throw a big heat exchanger at your car will you see a big change? No. If you throw a good pump at your car will you see a big change? No. You will see improvement, but not anything jaw dropping. I will guestimate that the spacers make the same impact that a big heat exchanger or water pump makes (when making one mod at a time). The spacers are far less money than most of the top shelf heat exchangers and land right in the middle of what a good pump costs. So, are they worth it? Yeah, they are worth it as much as any other intercooler system upgrade. The big factor is this will probably be the only time you can get these. You can tackle the rest of the intercooler system at any time.
What Involved With Running Them?
---They're 1/2" thick. This means your blower/manifold will be 1/2" higher. If you are going to run into hood clearance issues you will need drop urethane engine mounts. The good news is that you really want drop urethane engine mounts anyway because they have multiple benefits. Here is a link to why you want drop urethane engine mounts anyway: Click Here For Link
I stock and sell UPR engine mounts for the blower kits. So, if you need engine mounts with your spacers I can supply them all in one go during the group buy for $140 (which is $20 off).
---You will need longer fasteners for your intake manifold (1/2" longer). I can supply them for people with Department Of Boost GT450 kits without any trouble because I know what fasteners they come with originally. I can supply fasteners for other kits too, but I need to know what they have in them originally. Getting this information may be as easy as looking through the instructions (which I don't have) or worse case removing one/some and measuring them. So, I can supply fasteners for all of the kits. But, I'm going to need someone to step up and get me the information I need.
---You will need a 1" longer belt.........maybe. This is a non-issue for people with GT450 kits because like the fasteners I have all of the information needed. This may be a little tricky for other kits because some of the blower companies don't actually tell you how long their belt is (they want you buying belts from them). There are a couple of ways to go about this. You can measure your belt (or get the measurement from someone else), buy a 1" longer belt and be all set. You may, depending on how your belt system is set up, be able to replace the ribbed idler next to the power steering pump pulley with a 76mm smooth idler ($15 ish), rout the belt over it opposed to under it and "gain" that inch you need. In some case you can replace the 90mm idler on the passenger side with a 76mm idler and "gain" some belt length too. Another option is to run a Department Of Boost Frankentensioner. The Frankentensioner has a lot more travel than every tensioner we have ever seen. That means your 1" "too short" belt will put the Frankentensioner in the middle of it's travel where if you're using another tensioner it will be bottomed out (won't fit). There is of course no one size fits all though. You may still need to mess with belt setup a little even with the Frankentensioner. The upside is that you will get the most effective tensioner available and it will give you the opportunity to set your belt tensioner up correctly (which it probably isn't right now). Here is a link to the Frankentensioner and a write up on why it's so good at what it does: Click Here For Link
Group Buy Information:
This group buy is going to be a little different than ones in the past because unless I get 100 orders it won't happen.
-The group buy is going to run from right now (12/6/17) to January 31st 2018.
-Production will be done by the end of February 2018 and then they will ship.
-To get in on the group buy I will need a $25 deposit by PayPal. This will ensure I have a little more commitment than "I'm in bro!". When the group buy is about to expire (late January) I will get the balances. If by the closing date of the group buy I don't have 100 orders I will refund your $25 in full.
-The spacers are $350 shipped in the CONUS (if international email me for a shipping quote).
-If you want fasteners add $15.
-If you want drop urethane engine mounts add $140.
-If you want a Frankentensioner Stage I add $40.
-If you want a Frankentensioner Stage II add $90.
If you want to get in on the group buy please email me at [email protected].
