Not your typical cam position sensor issue

46addict

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And going back to what you said earlier about being 8-9* off, these cams are spec'd at .547 intake lift and .555 exhaust lift. Can I be 8 degrees off with these cams and not have PTV?
 

46addict

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I would start with the part number for the lockout. If they are one-piece (per cam), they are a pretty brainless install... they just drop right in. If they are two-piece, you have to put the cam in the right position to get them installed (which puts the cams 10* retarded, IIRC). If you have a pair of two-piece lockouts, the reluctor finger will be off and the CPS will register it being 1/42, or roughly 8-9* off. I believe that is enough to trigger the CPS codes.
I revisited this post and realized what you were saying about being 8-9* off refers to the reluctors, not the cams themselves.

I asked Livernois about the lockouts. They make lockouts for Dorman phasers and OE phasers but mentioned nothing about two-piece lockouts. I'm not saying you're wrong but if my parts were bought and installed two years ago, the two-piece ones may have been taken off the market by this point. I just need to find the time to open up my valve covers and confirm.

So far I've changed the PCM, alternator, and cam sensors with no luck. If everything checks out mechanically, the only other thing I can think of is the crank sensor.
 

Flapjack

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I read your post from page 6 and thought and thought you had your answer. Sorry man.

Not sure who you talked to at Livernois, but last I talked to them they still made them (it's been a few years now).

Here's a screen shot from modularfords with Andy at Livernois talking about them. You probably have to specially request them.

Screenshot_20180713-184642__01.jpg
 

sportinawoody

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I had a similar issue without reading all 7 pages with a customers car stroked with a kb 2.8 whicked up, turns out the reluctor wheel had worn on the edges that line up with the crank pin. that solved our issue.
 

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I had a similar issue without reading all 7 pages with a customers car stroked with a kb 2.8 whicked up, turns out the reluctor wheel had worn on the edges that line up with the crank pin. that solved our issue.
So new reluctor wheels fixed the problem or was there anything else needed?
 

Flapjack

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I had a similar issue without reading all 7 pages with a customers car stroked with a kb 2.8 whicked up, turns out the reluctor wheel had worn on the edges that line up with the crank pin. that solved our issue.
So what problem did this cause? The CPS engine codes? Those are gone now with the more common lockouts, but it runs like ass and eventually cuts out one side altogether (spark and fuel). Once all our remodeling projects are done and I have room in the garage again, I'm going to pull the engine and put the 10* retarded lockouts back in and see how it runs.
 

Brandon08GT

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I did not build this car. This is JoshK's car/build. This car has gone through several changes but the last update is that he had Livernois cams and lockouts installed. I'm fortunate to have the S&H stealth turbo kit because there's a lot of room to work with in the engine bay. Pulling the valve covers off should be no problem.
I don’t mean to thread jack or call you out, but you weren’t by any chance on an episode of Live PD last week, were you??
 

sportinawoody

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yes that fixed our issue. If you have a dead bank, I would look at the noise suppressors 1st and foremost for the affected bank. I do know if you unplug one, it will kill the whole bank. should have 12 volts on the wire also
 

sportinawoody

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you dont have to crack open the vale covers. there should be one per side on the front of the timing cover at the bottom edge of the valve cover where the two meet. if you are missing one or one is unplugged, that bank will be dead
 

sportinawoody

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the one that can be seen is circled. the other is hidden by the intake tube on the other bank. it only has 1 wire, and that wire with key on should be hot with 12 volts. if it isnt hot with key on and both are plugged up, then you need to find the source of voltage loss

112_0804_05z-tuner_mustangs-roush_stage_2_engine.jpg
 

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I have suspected those for a long time now. Reason being, I didn't think they did much, outside eliminating EMI. When I lost one while pulling the engine, I didn't think it would hurt to just connect the wire directly to the block. Big mistake. It blew two fuses, I believe. So I ordered one to hook up, but after installing it, the engine still didn't run right (I believe on that exact side).

So, that's where I've been all this time .I've completely swapped out the harness, PCM, checked all wiring, etc. In the process I ended up also changing from the 10* retard cam ohaser lockouts to the normal ones most use.

I've been thinking lately that the tune for the original ones just can't account for the cams being fully advanced, but after reading this, I'm back to those fucking eliminators. According to Lito, that side isn't firing at all. From the datalogs, it looks like a COP issue, but those have all been swapped out as well.

Any ideas for testing this further (I'll check for 12v on those things later)? If I don't have to pull the engine again (since I can't get to the lockouts without pulling it), that would be awesome .
 

Flapjack

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I just checked and verified that I have 12v (13.5v, to be exact) before each resistor-dealie. Either the reaisto
the one that can be seen is circled. the other is hidden by the intake tube on the other bank. it only has 1 wire, and that wire with key on should be hot with 12 volts. if it isnt hot with key on and both are plugged up, then you need to find the source of voltage loss

View attachment 67904
I just checked and verified that I have 12v (13.5v, to be exact) before each resistor-dealie. Either they are bad (not sure if that's possupos) or it's something else. Did yours actually go bad and need to be replaced?

**EDIT**
Forgot to mention, each one has exactly 1ohm of resistance.
 
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Flapjack

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What do you guys mean by "side not firing at all" or dead bank? No spark or fuel on that side at all?
From what I understand, there are several conditions that will trigger the "shut down" of an entire bank... mostly to protect the catalytic converters. When the engine starts, it's in open loop... working off set fuel/spark tables. After a period, it goes into closed loop, accepting feedback from the O2 sensors and making changes in the form of fuel trims. If one side doesn't respond enough to bring AFR in line, the engine will then run that side on the opposite bank O2s, effectively mirroring the fuel trims on both sides. If that doesn't work, it'll cut fuel/spark to the faulty bank altogether.

That is probably very over-simplified, as I don't do much in the way of tuning or trying to figure out our PCM's strategies. I leave all that stuff to Lito. :D
 

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