10 things I love and hate about my 3V Mustang

[rjyote]

I agree with most of the negatives above but even the 11-14s have the hood corrosion issues.

Not the 13-14 cars. The leading edge of the hood sits behind the bumper cover on a rubber seal, thus avoiding the constant moisture buildup which causes the corrosion. Should have been that way since 05.

 

[702GT]

I thought this would be a fun thread to do so here goes:

Love:

1) Exterior looks fantastic
2) 3V V8 sounds amazing with cams and headers
3) Retro gauges look awesome
4) Easy motor to work on
5) Shifts good (I never miss a gear)
6) Clutch isn't too heavy
7) Insurance is cheap
8) Not too heavy at 3350 lbs
9) Handles decent enough for my needs
10) It's American Muscle!

Hate:

1) Cheap plastic interior
2) Weak rods (can't handle 450+ HP)
3) Weak transmission/clutch (can't handle 450+ HP)
4) Speedometer only goes to 145 mph (160+ is way cooler)
5) Spark plugs break off in heads
6) 5 speed instead of 6 speed manual
7) 4.10 gears + T3650 = 125 mph top speed at WOT (WEAK!)
9) Rattles sometimes when driving
10) Door panels peel off!

I think the experience of "Hate" #2, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 10 vary from owner to owner and car to car.

I've been making 450whp/485wtq for well over a year now, and 420/450 on N2O prior to that. Motor has been cammed, sprayed, and blown. Not a tick out of place, no smoke, and has the same oil coming out that I put in it. If you really want to get technical, I've been cranking well over 500hp/500tq on stock internals, as far as power before it leaves the flywheel. Consider where the 4.6 motor came from, and the era it lived in, I'd say that's good bang for the buck. But, it is still a respectable "hate" considering the bang for the buck you can get out of a used coyote now, vs a used 3v, stock for stock.

You can get more out of 4.10's and the 3650, if you're not afraid to click 5th. No matter how you spin it, 1.00 x 4.10 gear is the same top speed, no matter a 5 speed or 6 speed. The T-56 guys always assumed they had more top end than the 3650 guys because they had 6 gears. It's a false if you are comparing overall top gear. The T56 will give you that .80 5th gear advantage to get to top speed faster, but when you click 6th, you're as limited as the 5 speed guys. Had a friend thought his T56 swapped 2v would get better fuel economy on road trips than my 3650 3v, it wasn't even close.

Other than my general argument, I still agree with your complete "Hate" list, as well as the "Love." I give it a x2

And of course the main thing I hate? It's not a 5.0 LOL! Feel free to discuss or make your own list.

Mine is an absolute gas pig around town. I drive 130-150 miles..and I'm down to 1/4 tank. It idles at 750 rpm.

Hot damn man, that's got to have a giant cam/blower/right foot. I drive in Vegas traffic, I get about 200-240mi to the tank on E85. 240-280 on 91. I don't want to instigate a riot for highway mpg, but I can roll from Vegas to Santa Barbara through the desert heat with 1/8-1/4 tank to spare (360miles).

 

[darrens07gt]

Just to clarify what years I like best for exterior looks it's 05-09. I always refer to 11-14 as coyote's or 5.0's. Whenever I hear S197 I immediately think 05-09 (and 10 I suppose since it has the same 3v motor).

I have used the search button hear until my eyes would bleed so I have read countless threads on countless subjects. So when I base my opinion on 450 HP being a safe limit for things like the engine and transmission it's simply based off the popular consensus on this forum. I understand some have had great success while others not so much.

I'm not afraid to shift into 5th per say. But I have read a number of times that it's not good for the T3650 to do it at WOT. I did do it once personally and two things were obvious to me afterward.

1). I could smell burning clutch smell.

2). The pull in fifth was a crawl that a turtle could out run.

Not a real big deal but it would be nice to have a little more top end. The car had 4.10's when I bought it so I can't see myself going backwards and will probably just leave them in. But if I had been the first owner then I would have upgraded to 3.73's since they seem like a good compromise gear for acceleration and top end.

 

[702GT]

Just to clarify what years I like best for exterior looks it's 05-09. I always refer to 11-14 as coyote's or 5.0's. Whenever I hear S197 I immediately think 05-09 (and 10 I suppose since it has the same 3v motor).

I have used the search button hear until my eyes would bleed so I have read countless threads on countless subjects. So when I base my opinion on 450 HP being a safe limit for things like the engine and transmission it's simply based off the popular consensus on this forum. I understand some have had great success while others not so much.

I'm not afraid to shift into 5th per say. But I have read a number of times that it's not good for the T3650 to do it at WOT. I did do it once personally and two things were obvious to me afterward.

1). I could smell burning clutch smell.

2). The pull in fifth was a crawl that a turtle could out run.

Not a real big deal but it would be nice to have a little more top end. The car had 4.10's when I bought it so I can't see myself going backwards and will probably just leave them in. But if I had been the first owner then I would have upgraded to 3.73's since they seem like a good compromise gear for acceleration and top end.

I'm in no way saying you're wrong, either. I was just arguing the term of "limitation" as being vague in matters of power. You're right, pretty much as soon as you put a power adder against the stock internals, you are on borrowed time. At least, that's how I feel about it. I'm okay with being on borrowed time. My car spends most of it's engine life, now, around 0-2psi on the boost gauge. It's nothing glorious, but with 3.73's in the back, just that much throttle in the low powerband produces plenty enough torque to get a person in trouble on the surface streets of Las Vegas. On the open highway I may open it up and let the gauge fly to all it's heavenly 7psi, but again 3rd or 4th gear at 7psi is pushing me well beyond a speed for NHP to impound me and the car.

It's kind of funny, my friend I helped rebuild his '03 Termi motor hates on me all the damn time because I talked him into putting a 2.9L whipple on in place of the stock M112. Now the guy flops 17psi at the drop of a hat, and has nowhere to put it LOL. He says to me one day, "Bro, what the fuck was the point? I have all this power (630whp/595wtq) and I can't make it out of 2nd gear before I'm due for a speeding ticket." I tell him, because it was the right thing to do. LOL but he's correct, for a street car, once you start pushing stupid power, there's nowhere on the street to safely apply it. Even on the highway, he has to be cautious how much pedal he lays into, or the rear end just breaks out from under him. It's been my experience, that what the stock internals are limited to, seems like just the right amount if you're a street car.

Regarding gearing, once again I didn't mean to be insulting, like you're scared of 5th gear or something. I meant that clicking 5th for that extended top end is taking many things, including your life, in your own hands. When I just had a CAI & Tune with 4.10's, I did a top end run on straightest patch of empty highway I could find, and it wasn't worth it but I wanted to know what it was like. (Previously stock with 3.55's, the top end was governed.) I've had the needle buried with 4.10's, and let off. If nothing more for the fact that it was apparent that my car didn't sit low enough or have the suspension to support 145mph+. The car had the wobbles & bounce so bad I didn't care to ever attempt it again. I can't say that it was a turtle crawl in 5th, either, the needle moved relentlessly 'til it pegged out, but certainly not as aggressively as 4th gear. Now that I have the car lowered with a full suspension on it, it handles as if on rails at (what GPS says) 155mph, but again finding the occasion where I wouldn't be endangering others or pissing off The Man, are far and few between, so I've only had opportunity to do it once, and don't care to do it again. The world above 120mph is just not for me, shit happens fast, small movements are huge, and if something goes wrong it's a huge probability I'll not survive nor the car. BUT, our S197's *can* do it. I personally feel, if I had an extra .80 gear, it wouldn't make me feel any better about using it vs 5th. I personally never had any clutch issues in 5th, but I agree that 5th gear in a stock TR3650 is not going to like WOT too many times. I've never used WOT in 5th while FI, but if you maintain just enough boost via right foot, 5th will cruise right up there no sweat, again not as aggressively as WOT 4th, but when you're racing an Audi TT, the look of bewilderment as you pass them at 150mph and creep away is priceless.

 

[eighty6gt]

Easy to have the power to go 120 mph. The cars feel great up to about this speed, but the roads can't handle it, and I think a lot of air is getting under the car.

I have done a 4th gear pull once since I put the blower(s) on.

I guess it's different in houston, etc where you have 8 smooth lanes, the night air feels cool, there's E85 and you can hold it WOT. Still get destroyed by corvettes, GTR's, superbikes.

 

[darrens07gt]

I didn't take any offense. It's all good. I'm not one who spends much time north of 100 unless it's at the track on a quarter mile pass. But just like with my old 99 Trans Am I had to take it on one "bury the speedo run" just to feel the car's stability at high speeds and basically just to say I did it. I buried the TA's needle at 155 and immediately shut her down. That was a rush!

Like I said though, I bought the Mustang with 4.10's all ready in it. I took the Mustang on a top speed run (prior to cams and tuning so I had a 6000 rpm redline) and it was pathetic. I topped out 4th gear at 117 mph and it was a crawl from 118 to 130 mph. I shut it down there and have not attempted another since. The car felt stable but I could smell burning clutch and the acceleration rate was not very good.

Most of the time I love the 4.10's. But that was one time where I was not so in love with them. It's a little better now with the cams and tune because I can redline 6,500 rpm's which at least holds 4th to 125 mph. But still the speedo goes to 145 so I'd like to know I could at least go that fast even if I never actually do it.

Oh well. It's not worth changing gears so I'll just have to live with it.

 

[Norm Peterson]

The world above 120mph is just not for me, shit happens fast, small movements are huge, and if something goes wrong it's a huge probability I'll not survive nor the car. BUT, our S197's *can* do it. I personally feel, if I had an extra .80 gear, it wouldn't make me feel any better about using it vs 5th. I personally never had any clutch issues in 5th, but I agree that 5th gear in a stock TR3650 is not going to like WOT too many times. I've never used WOT in 5th while FI, but if you maintain just enough boost via right foot, 5th will cruise right up there no sweat, again not as aggressively as WOT 4th, but when you're racing an Audi TT, the look of bewilderment as you pass them at 150mph and creep away is priceless.

Other than for organized speed events such as the Silver State, the street is not the place for 120+. At a road course, where 120+ properly belongs, a little over 120 is fairly easy to achieve even with a stockish 4.6L on street tires, and for sure tighter gear spacing beyond 4th would be a good thing for putting down best lap times.


Norm

 

[Riptide]

One of the things I will miss about MT. There are plenty of roads, some only about 20 minutes from my house, to do pulls on up to 120-130. Not much traffic, few cops, straight and narrow.

One nice thing about living in the middle of no where.

 

[Norm Peterson]

On the track you could do a dozen pulls to that speed every session . . .


Norm

 

[Riptide]

Of course. But I have to drive 20 miles out of town, go down a mile of gravel road, and pay $25.

Or I can find a lonely stretch of highway with minimal risk and minimal traffic. And do a pull there.

 

[Pentalab]

These cars are about as streamlined as a freezer. Impact air pressure goes up to the square of the velocity. IE: A 225% increase from 100 to 150 mph. It's a tough slog > 120 mph. At least with my 26.97" tall rear tires + 3.31 rear gear..and being in 4th gear (1:1 ratio on a 5r55s) it's 150 mph @ 6 krpm. ( 100 mph @ 4 krpm, 125 mph @ 5 krpm). I have had it up to 137 mph on a clear, unused portion of the hwy, but don't recommend it. To even do it safely, you would 1st have to drive the entire length of the intended portion of the hwy, at normal speed, just to make damn sure there is no debris on the road. Then check the GPS to see where the bends, if any, are on the road, and how much room you have left to safely slow down. Even good street pads don't fare too well at 125-150 mph in an emergency braking situation. And don't even think about doing high speed runs at night, not with deer /elk leaping across, in front of you.

One of the guys in the local mustang club was blasting along in the center lane, real early in the morning, and zero traffic on the road, then starts to come by a babe in a VW..who was in the curb lane. She decides to move to the center lane without checking..and buddy ends up into the trees, trying to not rear end her.

Then I have seen other stupid stuff, like 2x4's falling off of trucks etc. I had that happen to me years ago, inside a tunnel, and trying to dodge 2x4's bouncing off both tunnel walls, a real experience.

 

[Norm Peterson]

These cars are about as streamlined as a freezer. Impact air pressure goes up to the square of the velocity. IE: A 225% increase from 100 to 150 mph.

And power required goes up as the cube of velocity . . .

It's a tough slog > 120 mph. At least with my 26.97" tall rear tires + 3.31 rear gear..and being in 4th gear (1:1 ratio on a 5r55s)

Trust me, it's not much better even with 25.9" tall tires and 3.55 axle gears. Acceleration above 120 to redline in 4th (TR3650, 1:1) is finite without being anything you can feel happening. Haven't been past about 125, as redline in 4th and the need to brake for upcoming corners seem to have had a way of coinciding at that point.


Norm