A couple well known vendors not to trust: Kenny Brown and Fluidyne

JJ427R

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Not be be a smart ass but the supercharger is over sped and we’re upset because a radiator attached to the engine is not cooling the transmission...Is that correct?
You need to make sure the car doesn’t have other issues and seriously consider reducing the boost pressure if you can’t get better tuning.

I'm beginning to think your a dumb ass, go back and read the thread, then ask me any questions.....
 

RocketcarX

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I understand your blower is over-sped, you refuse to acknowledge the issues it is causing, and that your mechanic can't get your car to run as cool as it did prior to him "upgrading" it for apparently no reason at all according to you saying the car had no previous cooling issues.
I also understand you have another thread about your pre-existing cooling issues that he couldn't diagnose.
 

redfirepearlgt

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I'm beginning to think your a dumb ass, go back and read the thread, then ask me any questions.....

OP I suggest you show these guys a little courtesy. Rocketcarx and Pentelab (and others) are taking from their personal time to help direct you on what is truly a vague, half written, "oh btw I forgot to mention...", multi-issue, bitch session thread. And I will add none of their assistance and direction is costing you a dime. Guys like these help people on here out of the kindness of their hearts and in some cases for returning a favor where someone once helped them out of a pickle. Change your dirty diaper, get a fresh bottle, and then when you have gotten your little tamper tantrum under control come back and maybe these guys will continue to help direct you. Until then I would suggest they tell you to piss in the wind.
 

JJ427R

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OP I suggest you show these guys a little courtesy. Rocketcarx and Pentelab (and others) are taking from their personal time to help direct you on what is truly a vague, half written, "oh btw I forgot to mention...", multi-issue, bitch session thread. And I will add none of their assistance and direction is costing you a dime. Guys like these help people on here out of the kindness of their hearts and in some cases for returning a favor where someone once helped them out of a pickle. Change your dirty diaper, get a fresh bottle, and then when you have gotten your little tamper tantrum under control come back and maybe these guys will continue to help direct you. Until then I would suggest they tell you to piss in the wind.

I apologize if I offended anyone, that is not my intent at all. I really though the thread was pretty self explanatory, but I guess I was wrong in that assumption, so let me try again and I hope I get it right.

I was as Road America in 2016 and was having issues with my transmission overheating. Kenny Brown Performance was there so I went to them to seek some advise and was directed to call them the following week. We discussed my trans cooling issue and was advised to upgrade the rest of my cooling as well, which good sale people do, they talked me into the Fluidyne Radiator and Heat Exchanger. The trans cooler I had purchased on my own and was planning on installing at the same time.

I purchased and received the parts May of 2017 (after getting car out of winter storage) and my mechanic proceeded to do the install of the radiator. At that point he noticed the factory auto trans cooler had to be removed, as the Fluidyne radiator is deeper and the stand-offs for the trans cooler were further forward. It would not fit He then proceeded to install the HE with dual fans, got to putting the fans on and they would not clear, by at least 3 inches.

At that point we got on the phone with Rich at KB and he seemed surprised it would not fit. We then got their mechanic and mine on the phone to discuss the issue and how we could resolve it. We were given advise to chop part of the front bumper and a couple other things I can't remember right now. Did what they said and go it in. Then proceeded to putting the front fascia back on and lower fascia would not fit, had to cut approximately 5 inches from the back of it to clear the HE

Because of the larger radiator and heat exchanger, and how we mounted the Mishimoto trans cooler directly in front of the radiator, the factory ducting and radiator cover had to be removed, which I have now found on this thread and from others (Thank You everyone on here that posted) is the main part of my cooing issue and causing negative back pressure.

I spoke with Rich at KB today and he claims I should not have had to leave any of the factory ducting or radiator cover out, again claims they should have fit, and now wants me to find out from my mechanic why it specifically would not fit. I contacted my mechanic today and he could not remember specifically as it's been almost a year, need to bring it to him with the original ducting to refresh his memory, but said it would have gone back on if it fit, he would not have just left it off.

I fully trust my mechanic as he has been in business for almost 40 years, done many custom auto's, and was in contact with Kenny Brown's crew regarding all of this.

So what this comes down to is: I was sold parts that did not fit as I was told several times they would, which has led to bigger issues, and the vendor keeps tryin to point fingers elsewhere.

Hope this helps the confusion.....

Thank You all
 

JJ427R

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I bet I could have gotten that stuff to fit.

I forgot to mention I spoke with Jim Jr at JDM Engineering last week regarding my tune, shift points, and, what temp my radiator fan comes on, which is 200* . I discussed this install and the cooling issue it has created. They just did a similar Roush as mine with a similar triple flow system, they ended up cutting the lower fascia just as my guy had to.
 

eighty6gt

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It can get rough cobbling stuff together that was never designed to work
 

JJ427R

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There are a couple updates related to this thread on the following thread: I apologize for the length of this post....
http://www.s197forum.com/threads/4-6-rouchcharged-engine-temps.134657/

I spoke with Rich at KB Monday and he claims I should not have had to leave any of the factory ducting out, again claims they should have fit, wanted me to find out from my mechanic why it specifically would not fit.

I met with my mechanic Tuesday am, we took photos of the install. The two plastic pieces that go along each side of the radiator were the only pieces left off. They could not be put on because they would not clear the HE or the plumbing that goes to that and the tranny cooler. He could have hacked those up but chose not to and we really didn't believe they would resolve much. I do have my radiator cover, I was thinking there was another piece of ducting below that but there was not.
The only other gap we could really find is the radiator fan housing is maybe 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch away from the radiator so there is a bit of a gap that air could be pulled thru, but if it was flush against or you to seal it with something, it's probably going to rub on the fins of the radiator and eventually cause a hole.

Today I sent the photos we took to Rich at KB and my mechanic also gave his evaluation which was very similar to a user on this forum Pentalab posted in the forum listed above, regarding how there was no way possible this could be installed without cutting things apart.

Rich from KB responded:

Thanks, Reviewing options with Ken,
Ford and Roush both build this car as a “street” car, anything you do past that will take modifications. Your car is modified to accommodate you and what you plan to do with it . The OEM pieces were not working for you that is why you talked to us at Road America. We offered to help you by doing the install. Had we been doing the installation we could have evaluated the situation during the install not after.

So since no one makes” bolt in” parts for your application did he suggest that you stop doing track events ?

I then responded:
I am aware that often times modifications are required to do these type of installs, that I why I contacted you guys as well as Fluidyne before doing this install. I did not want to do any of these modifications to this car to make these parts work and I was told they would work. It also still says on your HE webpage “The unit can also be used on 2005-2014 Mustang GT, V6, Roush equipped with a supercharger or turbocharger system”. It also does not state modifications may be required. It does on one of your other models, but not this one.

I spoke with you guys at Road America regarding my tranny overheating, that was it. My engine has never overheated prior to this. You guys were the ones who made the recommendation of adding these components, as well as the suspension/matrix brace. You also recommended hood vents, different grille, and trans cooler.

The only item I really would have had to add is an adequate tranny cooler and I would have been good to go. I had to pay for modifications I had never intended on doing, and now continuing with having to do more to resolve the problem.

And many other companies do make bolt in parts I could have used. From what I’ve been told from others I could have added this B&M cooler without any modifications to my existing oem cooler and been done.

http://www.bmracing.com/products/70266-oil-cooler-supercooler-medium-npt-fittings-plate-type-black/?mk=&yr=&md=&smd=&eng=

Enough of the finger pointing from you guys, it’s time to take responsibility.

Rich responded:
Again We made our recommendations as these are the parts we install. We offered to do the Install. You decided to pick and choose what you did and find your own installer. Your decisions were based on price.
I have and will continue to try and help you, but it seems you are looking to find someone to blame.



I'm really going to open a can of worms now, what would you guys do in this case????
 

RocketcarX

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YOU put the shittiest transmission cooler available on your car. End of story.
 

AnotherS197GT

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There is nothing you can do but take the mods off and try to sell them if you're unhappy with them. At this point, they're used parts and expecting the vendor to do anything for you is just going to aggravate you further. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. What are you expecting them to do for you? It's not like they can wave a magic wand and make your cooling problems go away and I would be incredibly surprised if they offered to take used parts back.

We all make poor mod choices sometimes, its the nature of the beast.
 

russtang

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"Got into the project and installed radiator, went to install heat exchanger with dual fans is when we ran into issues. Fans were not even close to clearing, by at least 5 inches. Contacted KB and they seemed surprised and were little help, and Rich Cottrell actually told me I would not have had any issues with it if I'd had their mechanic do the install.

At this point I should have had my mechanic pull it all and send it back to KB we decided to proceed. We ended up having to cut 5 inches out of my front fascia to get it to fit."

Most important sentence in the whole thread.
 

Pentalab

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Remove the top cover, that covers all the various rads, and you will see in 3 secs that there is no way in hell you can get a thicker eng rad, + thicker HE to fit... without a ton of supporting (aka chop + hack) mods. Bone stock, the oem tranny cooler just has barely enough room to slide in between the front side of oem eng rad... and back side of oem AC rad. Once he went to the thicker eng rad, his oem tranny cooler won't fit..and oem tranny cooler is only 3/4" thick.

However, the thicker eng rad (depending on how thick it actually is), should have fitted...with oem auto tranny removed. The boss 302 eng rad is 1.5" thick vs the 1" thick GT eng rad. Boss rad is thicker to handle the extra cooling required to make the oil cooler function correctly. But that's on 11+ MANUAL cars. FRPP sells a thicker eng rad ( 2" thick) for the 05-09 cars, with the caveat that combo is for 'manuals' only. I had my 2010 all apart from above... and also measured from down below, and came to the conclusion that with my limited skill set, there was no way to simply drop in either a thicker eng rad....( oem tranny cooler would have to be removed, which also means no room for a 2nd tranny cooler to be mounted below oem tranny cooler)...... nor any easy way to install a thicker HE. Oem roush HE on a 2010 M90 setup is 18" tall x 21" wide x 1" thick, on long stand offs. Roush HE barely fits as is, almost mashed into the front fascia. Reason is... the oem power steering 'rad' is a small thing, with round fins... and mashed tight at the bottom, located between back side of roush HE...and front side of oem AC rad. IF a thicker ( but not as tall as the roush HE) was used, a thicker HE may well fit... if located towards the top, to allow clearance for the oem power steering rad. But then you now have the problem of where to install an auto tranny rad.

Since I had no eng cooling issues, nor IAT issues, my only issue being the auto tranny temps, the easy fix was the addition of a 2nd auto tranny cooler. So in went the ( $55.00 at the time) 13,000 BTU B+M slimline, 3/4" thick auto tranny cooler, directly below the oem ford tranny cooler, easy install. Oem ford tranny cooler plumbed in series with B+ M cooler. Problem solved, I can't get the auto tranny temps to exceed 172 F with blower on.

On a side note, Vorshlag racing, on their latest S-197 blog, noted that they are now using ester based 5W-50 synthetic eng oil. They use it on a bunch of their other cars..and report that eng oil temps dropped 30 deg F..which is a bunch. That would alleviate any need for an eng oil cooler..which I have zero room for anyway. http://www.s197forum.com/threads/vo...development-thread.134389/page-2#post-2428122

I'm already using RP 100% synthetic 5W-30 HPS eng oil., so will leave it as is for now. As is, I have no way to measure eng oil temps, nor eng oil pressure. I have both sensors, but have not installed them. Dunno if Vorshlags 30 deg F drop in oil temps is because of the Motul brand 100% synthetic ester formulation, or just cuz it's 100% synthetic.
 
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ox white

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Damn, when you said "KB" I was thinking Kenne Bell. Kenny Brown suspension parts are junk, you know, like Saleen Racecraft and Granatelli. I'm surprised they are still in business, even more so now with drivetrain parts. You should have done more research. Fluidyne, on the other hand, are very proficient in designing and manufacturing cooling parts.
 

JJ427R

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Damn, when you said "KB" I was thinking Kenne Bell. Kenny Brown suspension parts are junk, you know, like Saleen Racecraft and Granatelli. I'm surprised they are still in business, even more so now with drivetrain parts. You should have done more research. Fluidyne, on the other hand, are very proficient in designing and manufacturing cooling parts.

Unfortunately I did do lots of research, but it was in what these two supposedly reputable vendors told me that sold me on their products. It was my understanding that Fluidyne is supposed to be a great company, but what I've got isn't cutting it, and their support after sale is less than helpful. After several emails with their manger Ryan Williams he stopped responding. Then oddly enough last week I received a Linked In request from him. I sent him an email, regarding his lack of response to my last email, and told him I could not accept his request to join my network as I had no good recommendation to give him... touché'

Needless to say I did not receive a response from him....

I had hopes one of these two vendors would come clean and admit that what they sold me was incorrect for my car, but at my age I should know better. Pisses me off they refuse to take any accountability, and try to blame it on an incorrect install or some other BS, which I think sucks, and that is why I'm telling people to avoid these vendors.
 

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