California emissions and long tubes

Ken04

gm troll basher
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Posts
2,503
Reaction score
40
Location
Santa Rosa Ca.
My wife and I are moving from Washington state to California. We are taking our 2 2008 supercharged Roush's with us of course. I have a set of LT's to put on the 08 Trak Pak. I've heard conflicting reports on the legality of long tubes. Someone suggested I install them prior to hauling them down there. Someone else said not to but to install them after I license them in Ca. Does anybody have some actual experience on getting LTs approved in Ca? We'll be in Petaluma, Santa Rosa, Novato area depending on where we find a house.
 

07 Boss

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Posts
3,831
Reaction score
968
Location
Sin City
I'm from that area and still have many friends there. Unless you have a CARB certification for those headers they will not pass. I don't think there are any long tubes that are approved. If any, you may find some shorty headers that might be OK.

If you need a real estate agent for that area let me know.
 

RocketcarX

95% of my weight is fuel
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Posts
2,738
Reaction score
220
Location
Colorado
It amazes me that Cali is the car culture capitol of the world and you can't modify anything beyond what the limited selection with CARB approval allows. I guess that's why people are always building pre 1974 vehicles out there.
 

01yellerCobra

forum member
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,230
Reaction score
158
Location
San Diego, CA
There are no long tubes legal out here. And chances are there are no legal mid pipes other than stock for your car as well. I know for my 04 only the stock one is still legal.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
So what exactly is the problem with LT's and the state of California ? I'm trying to fathom why LT's would make emissions worse. It's free hp /tq. Apparently shorty headers are ok, but for the minimal gains, IMO, they are probably not worth the effort and expense.

On a similar note, on the Roush 05-10 cars, with the TVS-2300 blower, they are listed as...'49 state legal'. Roush's tunes are lame duck to begin with, but even they couldn't come up with a tune to satisfy California. You may need somebody like Lito etc, to make you a (temp) tune that will pass emissions. Then swap it for the 'real deal' the next day.
 

Sky Render

Stig's Retarded Cousin
S197 Team Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Posts
9,463
Reaction score
357
Location
NW of Baltimore, MD
The law states that the catalytic converter cannot be modified or relocated. (Maryland has the same law, because it also follows CARB.)

You cannot install long-tube headers on these cars without relocating the catalytic converter. Ergo, long-tube headers cannot legally be used on a street-driven car that has to pass emissions testing.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
The law states that the catalytic converter cannot be modified or relocated. (Maryland has the same law, because it also follows CARB.)

You cannot install long-tube headers on these cars without relocating the catalytic converter. Ergo, long-tube headers cannot legally be used on a street-driven car that has to pass emissions testing.

With LT's, and say either a catted H or X.... you install NEW hi flow cats. You never re-locate the oem ones..which are useless anyway. OEM exhaust manifold on the 05-10 cars is just a scant 2" diam. That goes into the skinny oem cats at base of eng bay. Output of oem cats is 2.5". Then it's 2.5" all the way back.

Still baffles me why hi flow cats, or moving a hi flow cat rearwards has anything to do with reality. High flow cats are big diam things, like 4". They are shorter than oem skinny cats. Short + fat has as much ( and more) internal volume as long + skinny. The primary difference being, the high flow cat will flow better,simply cuz it has more parallel paths..and each shorter to boot. In the old 5.0 rag, they compared no cats to catted H / X.. and the difference across the entire rpm range was nil. 1-2 hp in favour of no cats at one rpm, then 1-2 hp in favour of hi flow cats at another rpm. California has gone beserko with its rules.

Daughter was at a Subaru dealer a few years ago, looking at new cars ( I was with her, told her don't buy a subie). The old geezer who owns the place, mentioned there was also an optional.... 'near zero california emissions device'.. which was a whopping $1100.00 option, wtf ? I never did find out if this 'device' replaced the oem cat..or was in addition to it. Of course with all the enviro geeks in this town, with their heads up their ass, it was apparently a hot seller. I suppose what's next in california will be mandated 100% electric cars. Then they get to fry the electrical grid, then build a 1/2 doz nuke plants to run the electric cars. Buddy of mine, his daughter bought an 100% electric Nissan Leaf. Her (every 2 months) electric bill will make u gag. It's 8.5 cents per kwh for the 1st XXX kwh, then the rates jump to 12.5 cents per kwh. I have never paid the higher rate in 20 years. The Nissan Leaf fans all get screwed..sucking 7.3 kw for hrs on end, typ 4-7 hrs per night.
 

01yellerCobra

forum member
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,230
Reaction score
158
Location
San Diego, CA
With LT's, and say either a catted H or X.... you install NEW hi flow cats. You never re-locate the oem ones..which are useless anyway. OEM exhaust manifold on the 05-10 cars is just a scant 2" diam. That goes into the skinny oem cats at base of eng bay. Output of oem cats is 2.5". Then it's 2.5" all the way back.

Still baffles me why hi flow cats, or moving a hi flow cat rearwards has anything to do with reality. High flow cats are big diam things, like 4". They are shorter than oem skinny cats. Short + fat has as much ( and more) internal volume as long + skinny. The primary difference being, the high flow cat will flow better,simply cuz it has more parallel paths..and each shorter to boot. In the old 5.0 rag, they compared no cats to catted H / X.. and the difference across the entire rpm range was nil. 1-2 hp in favour of no cats at one rpm, then 1-2 hp in favour of hi flow cats at another rpm. California has gone beserko with its rules.

Daughter was at a Subaru dealer a few years ago, looking at new cars ( I was with her, told her don't buy a subie). The old geezer who owns the place, mentioned there was also an optional.... 'near zero california emissions device'.. which was a whopping $1100.00 option, wtf ? I never did find out if this 'device' replaced the oem cat..or was in addition to it. Of course with all the enviro geeks in this town, with their heads up their ass, it was apparently a hot seller. I suppose what's next in california will be mandated 100% electric cars. Then they get to fry the electrical grid, then build a 1/2 doz nuke plants to run the electric cars. Buddy of mine, his daughter bought an 100% electric Nissan Leaf. Her (every 2 months) electric bill will make u gag. It's 8.5 cents per kwh for the 1st XXX kwh, then the rates jump to 12.5 cents per kwh. I have never paid the higher rate in 20 years. The Nissan Leaf fans all get screwed..sucking 7.3 kw for hrs on end, typ 4-7 hrs per night.

So you're thinking is because you're swapping out the cats entirely it doesn't count as relocating them?

The law is that the cats can't be moved from the stock location. The further you move the cats away from the engine the longer they take to heat up. Not something the emissions people like. And modifying the exhaust is actually a federal offense. Just some places don't look as hard as others.

Does it suck dealing with smog? Only once every two years. Does it end my fun with my car? Nope.
 

Sky Render

Stig's Retarded Cousin
S197 Team Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Posts
9,463
Reaction score
357
Location
NW of Baltimore, MD
So you're thinking is because you're swapping out the cats entirely it doesn't count as relocating them?

The law is that the cats can't be moved from the stock location. The further you move the cats away from the engine the longer they take to heat up. Not something the emissions people like. And modifying the exhaust is actually a federal offense. Just some places don't look as hard as others.

Exactly.
 

Marble

forum member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Posts
713
Reaction score
26
Location
Shasta county CA
There are smog exempt counties in CA. Which means as long as you own the car there is no sniff test. It would take an initial pass at any smog station and then registering your car at an address in one of those counties. You never have to smog your car again. Registration notice goes to whatever address you choose and you just pay your annual registration.
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
So you're thinking is because you're swapping out the cats entirely it doesn't count as relocating them?

The law is that the cats can't be moved from the stock location. The further you move the cats away from the engine the longer they take to heat up. Not something the emissions people like. And modifying the exhaust is actually a federal offense. Just some places don't look as hard as others.

Does it suck dealing with smog? Only once every two years. Does it end my fun with my car? Nope.

I'm not arguing with u. I just didn't understand their rationale behind moving cats aft. I use ceramic coated LT's..and the hi flow cats downstream run 100 deg F hotter than the oem setup with oem cats at base of eng bay. The ceramic coated LT's retain heat better. The benefits are.... outside surface temps on the 8 x primary's, and the collector are several hundred degrees cooler. The hotter the combustion products are on the inside, the faster they flow, which I'm now convinced are a substantial portion of the total effect of the LTs. The cats run hotter, and are more efficient. The ceramic LT's, and hi flow cats was the one mod that actually did something, that was more than subtle, the results were blatantly obvious, way more tq. Pulls like a mofo in 3rd + 4th gear.

California has it's head screwed on backwards. Too bad. The total number of cars on the road with LT's + high flow cats would be miniscule at most. They have painted everyone with the same 80' wide brush. What's next, cats for lawnmowers, or perhaps ban 4 stroke lawnmowers..and 2 stroke weed whackers.. and go 100% electric. Good luck with trying to mulch your lawn, not enough hp.
 

Flusher

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Posts
527
Reaction score
250
Modern emissions testing is done through the OBD2 port. Only pre-OBD2 cars are subject to a "sniffer test".

A visual inspection is the other part of the certification process

Just went through this with my '05. The first "test only" shop I went to was very thorough. Anything that didn't look original, he did a part number/EO (Exemption Order) number search on everything. Of course my car failed because of the JLT CAI, but not only that, somebody put an EO sticker indicating an Airaide CAI for an explorer. Fortunately, he let me leave without flagging my car, requiring me to go to a referee.

The second test only shop was less than enthusiastic about the state-mandated bod cavity search. He simply jacked into the OBD2 port, then handed me the smog cert.

Also, be advised that if your tune is not legit, your car will rat you out.

Good luck with the move and don't forget to vote conservative.

Cheers,

Joe
 

Sky Render

Stig's Retarded Cousin
S197 Team Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Posts
9,463
Reaction score
357
Location
NW of Baltimore, MD
Yes, the CARB laws are overly-Draconian.

Maryland technically uses CARB's emissions laws, but they only check for the presence of a catalytic converter. The $10/hour state employees are not trained well enough to know if the catalytic converter has been moved from its stock location. So if the tune is properly dialed in and you're using a crossover pipe with cats, Long Tubes should pass inspection in Maryland.
 

07 Boss

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Posts
3,831
Reaction score
968
Location
Sin City
I'm not arguing with u. I just didn't understand their rationale behind moving cats aft. I use ceramic coated LT's..and the hi flow cats downstream run 100 deg F hotter than the oem setup with oem cats at base of eng bay. The ceramic coated LT's retain heat better. The benefits are.... outside surface temps on the 8 x primary's, and the collector are several hundred degrees cooler. The hotter the combustion products are on the inside, the faster they flow, which I'm now convinced are a substantial portion of the total effect of the LTs. The cats run hotter, and are more efficient. The ceramic LT's, and hi flow cats was the one mod that actually did something, that was more than subtle, the results were blatantly obvious, way more tq. Pulls like a mofo in 3rd + 4th gear.

California has it's head screwed on backwards. Too bad. The total number of cars on the road with LT's + high flow cats would be miniscule at most. They have painted everyone with the same 80' wide brush. What's next, cats for lawnmowers, or perhaps ban 4 stroke lawnmowers..and 2 stroke weed whackers.. and go 100% electric. Good luck with trying to mulch your lawn, not enough hp.


There is no rational behind it. It is just the way they are in California. I saw all this coming and moved out of that state 20+ years ago. You know in some public places including inside your own car you can not smoke? Have you ever seen the sign at Disneyland's entrance? Here is a link to some of the signs you have to put up at your business. https://www.mysafetysign.com/prop-65-signs They actually have a sign telling folks that it is not good to inhale saw dust. Hahahaha. Why? 'Cause Californians are that stupid they need to be led around by a ring in their nose. I actually like the one that tells you your dentist is going to give you cancer.
 

01yellerCobra

forum member
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Posts
2,230
Reaction score
158
Location
San Diego, CA
There is no rational behind it. It is just the way they are in California. I saw all this coming and moved out of that state 20+ years ago. You know in some public places including inside your own car you can not smoke? Have you ever seen the sign at Disneyland's entrance? Here is a link to some of the signs you have to put up at your business. https://www.mysafetysign.com/prop-65-signs They actually have a sign telling folks that it is not good to inhale saw dust. Hahahaha. Why? 'Cause Californians are that stupid they need to be led around by a ring in their nose. I actually like the one that tells you your dentist is going to give you cancer.
Actually the car one is if you have a kid in the car with you. Makes sense to me. But then I don't smoke and don't want to deal with walking through clouds.
 

Sky Render

Stig's Retarded Cousin
S197 Team Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Posts
9,463
Reaction score
357
Location
NW of Baltimore, MD
There is no rational behind it. It is just the way they are in California. I saw all this coming and moved out of that state 20+ years ago. You know in some public places including inside your own car you can not smoke? Have you ever seen the sign at Disneyland's entrance? Here is a link to some of the signs you have to put up at your business. https://www.mysafetysign.com/prop-65-signs They actually have a sign telling folks that it is not good to inhale saw dust. Hahahaha. Why? 'Cause Californians are that stupid they need to be led around by a ring in their nose. I actually like the one that tells you your dentist is going to give you cancer.

Those stupid signs are on EVERY BUILDING out there. They've become so ubiquitous that they're pointless. If everything causes cancer, why does it matter?
 

Pentalab

forum member
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Posts
5,211
Reaction score
1,093
Actually the car one is if you have a kid in the car with you. Makes sense to me. But then I don't smoke and don't want to deal with walking through clouds.

Buddy of mine in northern california sez you can't smoke in your car if anybody is < 21 years of age. And you can't smoke in the parking lot of the state parks either.
You 1st have to boot your < 21 kids outa the car, then roll up the windows, then light up.

We have warnings on all sorts of house hold products these days, + gardening products. Typ... 'may cause cancer as per California lab tests'. " this product has been proven to cause cancer in the state of california". 'drinking roundup can cause death'. 'do not drink gasoline products'. 'do not dispose of full, or partially full propane bottles in a fire'.

Then we have all the new... ' idle free zone'. "Do not idle your engine for more than a maximum of 3 minutes. Failure to comply will result in severe penalties, including fines".

I got busted by local mall security at 11:55 PM, waiting for a friend to pick up a prescription from the late night pharmacy. The pharmacy was the only store open, and they closed at midnight. I was the only car in the parking lot, way down at one end, closest to the main street / sidewalk. Mall security prick must have walked for 15 mins to find me, it a huge L shaped mall parking lot. Reads me the riot act about smoking on mall property..(in a light wind no less). I walk 6' over to the sidewalk..and all is well. Friend comes out, mall cop is off shift in 2 mins at midnight, then we proceed to lay some rubber on the way out.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Support us!

Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!

Click Here For Details

Sponsor Links

Banner image
Back
Top