Cam Phasers...

tjm73

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Not exactly 4.6 3V or Mustang, but 5.4 3V in my 2007 F150 4x2 SCREW.

Anyway, got on the highway this morning behind a dump truck. Pulled out to pass and my truck just laid right down. Had almost no power. Could barely creep up to 70 mph. Didn't like being at that speed much. CEL starting flashing like I was walked into a rave for a minute then it stopped. Most of the power came back for a couple minutes, then the party returned again. Few minutes later I was ok. When I got off the highway 15 minutes later it was sluggish for a minute but cleared up and was ok for sub 40 mph speeds.

When I went out at lunch it was like nothing ever happened. Swung by the local AutoZone and had the codes pulled. P0012 & P0022. Both left and right banks were "over-retarded".

Here's the details on my truck. Just over 124,000 miles. Well maintained. Fresh oil change on the 15th (less than 2 weeks ago). Ford oil and filter always. STP oil treatment on each change as well the last 3 years. Was quiet as mouse after the oil change but a couple days later it was making some racket, but randomly. Even though my oil checks keep showing I am where I should be on fill levels it clatters up start up about 50% of the time if it sits all day or overnight without running.

A quick search makes this look like it's not good. What do you guys think I am looking at here? For right now I am going to play the wait and see game. See if it was an isolated event or if it happens again.
 

01yellerCobra

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I had the exact same issue with my 08 Expedition. It would be fine, then suddenly no power at all. I'd punch it and it would barely move. Had a couple of scares because of that. It ended up being a bad MAF sensor. I don't remember it ever popping a code which made it hard to diagnose. I do remember getting a code for the cam phasers, but I thought it was tune related as I loaded up a different tune and the cams started working properly. I'm assuming the MAF going screwy caused issues with the phasers. Once the sensor was replaced all was good.

The noise could be the tensioners pumping up as well.
 

07gts197

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I would check timing as well. I doubt its the cam phasers because its affecting both banks.
 

tjm73

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This truck is paid for in like 3 months. After which it is only going to pull my camper or run to home depot or lowes or pull a car trailer. So I don't care about fuel economy or much else besides not breaking down. It is being retired to occasional use only. I want this pig to start and run and do it's work for at least 3 or 4 more years (since it will see maybe 1500-2000 miles a year going forward this should not be a problem).

I am seriously thinking about a 5-Star Tuning VCT lock out kit with towing tune. $650 bucks in cheap for 3 or 4 years of piece of mind.
 

01yellerCobra

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I ran the 5 Star tune in my Expedition. I had the economy and towing/performance tune. The performance tune got the same mpg as the economy so I stuck with the performance tune.

I'd triple check it's nothing else before you start messing with locking out the phasers. I'd datalog and see if you can catch it when it acts up.
 

Badd GT

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U could probably get a timing kit for what your willing to pay for the 5star lockout thing.
 

tjm73

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I have no reason to believe there is anything wrong with my timing outside of the phasers not working correctly today.
 

Badd GT

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i understand that. If it is your phasers (thats your valve timing) you can put guides, chains, tensioners, phasers etc on and its all brand new, vs. putting lockouts on(just immobilizing your OLD phasers) and a tune for $600 and you still have all your OLD worn componets.
 

tjm73

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Sure I could spend $2500 having that done and then sell the truck in about 8000 miles (4 or 5 years of summer camping use), but that makes no money sense at all to me. None.

Minimal cash out lay to resolve and prevent this from happening again when the camper is hooked up and we are 7 hours from home with my wife and 4 and 6 year old in the truck. It would ruin a trip and cost hundreds maybe thousands to resolve on the road far from home.

I need to trust my truck and right now I do not.
 

RocketcarX

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Most of the time it is NOT the phasers. Livernois made a cottage industry out of a problem that does not exist. IF they failed it would not be intermittently.
The solenoids are another story. The first thing I would advise is to stop using the STP, it thickens the oil and is hard on the tight tolerance engine that is the modular 5.4, I know this is controversial on this forum but I would switch to 5w30 if you aren't already.
Do some reading on through google searching, its been a while but I know there is a lot of info out there on this very subject. Locking the phasers should be a last resort as all you are doing is eliminating a system as a whole instead of addressing the actual problem.
 

Dino Dino Bambino

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There's a fair chance the mesh screen inside the VCT solenoids is clogged up. Pull them out, inspect, and clean thoroughly. Hopefully that solves your problem, and you should go back to using the recommended 5W-20 oil without pouring in any additives.
 

redfirepearlgt

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I lost Cam Phasers on my 05GT. The vehicle would idle fine with no issues at startup. Throttle up and let off and the cam phasers would become active and fail creating a sound that you don't want to hear. Mine failed while driving. Loss of power and the sound of the interference is something you would not miss and would put the fear of Satan in you. You would hear it in the truck while driving. CEL's woudl be intermittent during my troubleshooting for the problem as well. Can't remember what they were now years later, sorry.

As Dino and Rocket suggest, stop the STP treatment, go back to a 5w20 oil if you are running thicker. If that does not resolve anything pull the control solenoids and inspect the screens for possible debris as mentioned.

Mine failed a month or so after a camp change. I suspect the TTY procedure in the tech manual was not applied after setting the initial torque on the cam phaser bolts. The banjo bolts (a one time use) were replaced during the cam swap. Afterwards a friend a Ford dealer did an extended leak down test for me after I had checked and verified compression due to the interference taking place between the valves and piston when the phasers failed. There are some 5.4 3v videos on youtube that demonstrate the sound of failed cam phasers. You may wish to search for them.
 

tjm73

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Started using the STP because the phasers were getting noisy about a year and a half ago. Since hen till now it's been quiet as mouse with only the sound of the injectors firing. I changed the oil two weeks back before a trip and used the STP high milage formula (used plain before). Forgot I used the different formula.

Anyway, it was quiet like normal till I was at my destination. It was intermittently noisy and quiet. But ran fine all the time till yesterday morning. Ran fine after work too.
 

thump_rrr

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Sure I could spend $2500 having that done and then sell the truck in about 8000 miles (4 or 5 years of summer camping use), but that makes no money sense at all to me. None.

Minimal cash out lay to resolve and prevent this from happening again when the camper is hooked up and we are 7 hours from home with my wife and 4 and 6 year old in the truck. It would ruin a trip and cost hundreds maybe thousands to resolve on the road far from home.

I need to trust my truck and right now I do not.
The first test that will tell you if it's phaser related is to replace the 5w-20 oil with 10w-30. Some people just run the thicker oil for years.
Valve timing and chain tensioning is performed by oil pressure.
The thicker oil keeps the pressure higher.
If you are mechanical inclined you can replace all the timing components in a weekend and make the truck like new again for about $800 including tools and genuine OEM parts.

With 124k on your truck have you replaced the spark plugs yet because they tend to seize and break off in the heads. There are tons of write ups and YouTube videos on how to do it. Lisle makes a tool that works well.
 

tjm73

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Did the plugs over a year ago. Maybe two.
 

tjm73

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Did more research over the weekend. Before I go with the VCT lockout, I am going to have the solenoids changed to the new style. they got revised at some point. RocketcarX got me looking at that angle. Thanks man.

Step 1: Solenoids replacement.
Step 2: Drive a for a bit see how it acts.
Step 3: Try a change of 5W-30. FYI... I've read that Ford of Australia uses this exact same engine and they call for 5W-30. And also Chile and Brazil spec 5W-30. Also 10W-30 in the Mid-East.
 
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tjm73

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Was thinking about this at lunch. It makes no sense for a mechanical problem to cause both the cams to go full retard at the same time. It just seems odd to have both banks act up at the same time and have it be mechanical. This seems like it would be more likely to be an electrical thing. The solenoids are electrical. May be oil related, but not leaning that way just yet. I'll keep the 5W-30 in my back pocket.

Since I will pretty much just be towing in the summer, 5W-30 for harder working (higher oil temps) higher mileage (looser tolerances) 5.4 3V would be ok.
 
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