Forging the 2012

[skaarlaj]

Well, looks like I'm going to stay on the stock block for now.

I will be ordering the VMP Gen 3 kit in the next few days. I briefly spoke with VMP and they said stay with the 92mm (11 psi) pulley with the stock internals. They say the 92mm is good with 91 or 93 octane.

I asked Beefcake (I'm ordering the kit through him), and he said I should be fine with the 88mm (12 psi) pulley. I explained I only use good 93 octane and I have a good flowing exhaust (1 7/8" LTHs, off-road h, lethal performance OTA pipes).

I'd really like to go with the smaller pulley. I'm willing to gamble a little.

Thoughts?

If you're wanting to push it, and if you have E85 in your area, it would at least get the octane threshold out of the equation for potentially destroying your engine. I run it all of the time with 10-11psi without any of the internet issues you hear so much about, but if you kept the boost at 10 or under, I really wouldn't fear the engine grenading as long as you drive it sanely, and maintain it decently. You may surprised at the power you'll make on E85 at 10psi, forget about dyno numbers and see how it actually feels, and gets down the track.

 

[JG-1]

Would the boost a pump cover the e85 or would I need a fuel system?

 

[eighty6gt]

VMP will know, I'm interested to hear

 

[skaarlaj]

Would the boost a pump cover the e85 or would I need a fuel system?

They're going to tell you to get a fuel system for E85, BAP's should easily cover you at 6xxwhp for gasoline though. It takes approx 30% more E85 do perform the same work as gasoline, depending on the actual ethanol content in the E85. Just FYI the Sai li fuel system was pretty easy to install, and costed less than a grand. I also wired a switch to jumper the included relay to power up one of the 2 pumps, so I can detatch at the fuel rail, and easily drain my tank without messing with the key

 

[JG-1]

They're going to tell you to get a fuel system for E85, BAP's should easily cover you at 6xxwhp for gasoline though. It takes approx 30% more E85 do perform the same work as gasoline, depending on the actual ethanol content in the E85. Just FYI the Sai li fuel system was pretty easy to install, and costed less than a grand. I also wired a switch to jumper the included relay to power up one of the 2 pumps, so I can detatch at the fuel rail, and easily drain my tank without messing with the key

Good to know. Gives me something to think about during the downtime of getting the blower polished. We have 1 station here in South Jersey (Mighty Joes) that sells E85. Its about 15 minutes from me, I guess I could store the fuel in portable containers.

What kind of power increase is expected from switching to e85?

 

[skaarlaj]

More for safety than power, but I'd guess you could easily see 30 or more at the wheels. The guy who's producing my single turbo kit told me I'd probably see mid 600's on 91 (octane limited), but could get to around 750whp on E85, so take that for what it's worth, but I wouldn't exactly expect numbers like that.

 

[travelers]

I understand they make kits to test the E85 to see the quality coming out of the pump. If you store some keep them sealed and out of sun lite.

Also take a look at places you go to see what's available en-route.

 

[eighty6gt]

I believe all of my buddies in the USA have given up on E85 due to declining quality and availability. Certainly depends on the region.

 

[JG-1]

For the Sai Li fuel system, do I want the black pushlock hose (standard), black braided (+$50), Silver PTFE lined hose (+$100) or black coated PTFE lined hose (+$150)?

 

[JG-1]

I believe all of my buddies in the USA have given up on E85 due to declining quality and availability. Certainly depends on the region.

Availability sucks but I'm 15 minutes from the only station in the whole area so I may take advantage of it.

 

[skaarlaj]

For the Sai Li fuel system, do I want the black pushlock hose (standard), black braided (+$50), Silver PTFE lined hose (+$100) or black coated PTFE lined hose (+$150)?

I just went with the standard stuff, and am happy. I did however go with a straight fitting right off of the pump instead of the provided 90, to let the hose gradually curve around some close-by interference items. Under 20$ at parts stores.

Availability sucks but I'm 15 minutes from the only station in the whole area so I may take advantage of it.

I'm in the same boat, I have 4 local E85 stations, but the 2 towns I've raced in don't, 1 is 100 miles away, the other is 200 miles away. I either bring 1, or 2 5gallon gas cans with me depending where I go.

 

[Pentalab]

They're going to tell you to get a fuel system for E85, BAP's should easily cover you at 6xxwhp for gasoline though. It takes approx 30% more E85 do perform the same work as gasoline, depending on the actual ethanol content in the E85. Just FYI the Sai li fuel system was pretty easy to install, and costed less than a grand. I also wired a switch to jumper the included relay to power up one of the 2 pumps, so I can detatch at the fuel rail, and easily drain my tank without messing with the key

E85 has no where near the BTU's per gallon vs plane jane 93 octane gasoline. You have to use more E85 to get the same BTU's, hence why your gas mileage drops 30% when using E85. Methanol is the worse, only 1/2 the BTU's vs 93 octane gasoline. Gas mileage is 1/2.

One of the fellows on the Roush forum switched to E85, and HP increased by 51 rwhp. Since E85 is typ 105-107 octane...next step was to increase the timing several degrees. His rwhp increased by an additional 54 rwhp. In his case that amounted to a total of 105 rwhp..which is a bunch. His cyl head temps dropped a bunch when E85 used.

The test kits used for testing E85 in some cases depict it's actually E87 in summer...and only E75 in fall /winter...so the tune has to be adjusted to factor that in.

Just thought of something else..the GT-500's came with dual fuel pumps. If that doesn't do it, a dual BAP might do the trick.

 

[skaarlaj]

E85 has no where near the BTU's per gallon vs plane jane 93 octane gasoline. You have to use more E85 to get the same BTU's, hence why your gas mileage drops 30% when using E85. Methanol is the worse, only 1/2 the BTU's vs 93 octane gasoline. Gas mileage is 1/2.

One of the fellows on the Roush forum switched to E85, and HP increased by 51 rwhp. Since E85 is typ 105-107 octane...next step was to increase the timing several degrees. His rwhp increased by an additional 54 rwhp. In his case that amounted to a total of 105 rwhp..which is a bunch. His cyl head temps dropped a bunch when E85 used.

The test kits used for testing E85 in some cases depict it's actually E87 in summer...and only E75 in fall /winter...so the tune has to be adjusted to factor that in.

Just thought of something else..the GT-500's came with dual fuel pumps. If that doesn't do it, a dual BAP might do the trick.

Right, less energy by volume / weight, but higher octane (more resistant to detonaton / pre-ignition) My Ethanol content has varied locally from mid 60's to low 80's. I never change the tune, and the car runs great. A little richer at lower E content, but ethanol also has a much broader stoich range than gasoline. I do go to my 91 tune, when I switch to 91 because it has actually tested below 60 a time or 2

 

[eighty6gt]

boostane is 200/case here, going to try that with pure 91. I can't reliably get even E10 94 here.

Boostane will brings octane to ~97 with a lot of knock resistance for about $16 extra per fill up. With gas at $1.40 say 50 liters (60 liter tank) costs $70,

~22% more money per tank. I bet I'd use more $ worth of E85 even if I could get it.

I didn't realize E85 had such a high octane rating.

 

[skaarlaj]

boostane is 200/case here, going to try that with pure 91. I can't reliably get even E10 94 here.

Boostane will brings octane to ~97 with a lot of knock resistance for about $16 extra per fill up. With gas at $1.40 say 50 liters (60 liter tank) costs $70,

~22% more money per tank. I bet I'd use more $ worth of E85 even if I could get it.

I didn't realize E85 had such a high octane rating.

It also has a better cooling effect than gasoline, that effects the actual knock resistance even further than advertised, here's a good read if you get a chance http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/04/everything-you-need-to-know-about-ethanol/

 

[Pentalab]

boostane is 200/case here, going to try that with pure 91. I can't reliably get even E10 94 here.

Boostane will brings octane to ~97 with a lot of knock resistance for about $16 extra per fill up. With gas at $1.40 say 50 liters (60 liter tank) costs $70,

~22% more money per tank. I bet I'd use more $ worth of E85 even if I could get it.

I didn't realize E85 had such a high octane rating.

Chevron 94 octane ( NO ethanol) is now $1.75 per litre here in Victoria BC. Fn crazy. $105.00 to fill up a 60 litre tank. And I get shit mileage. 20 litres per 100 km around town. 12 mpg around town..and perhaps 24 mpg on the hwy. And that's imperial gallons ( 4.54 litres ) not usa gallons ( 3.785 litres).

That Torco stuff VMP uses to boost octane results in everything turning orange. I thought u said u could buy 93 octane in E15 ? With E15, you want everything to be made from SS. E15 will destroy garden stuff like lawnmowers and honda engines, big no-no. How long is E15 good for? Do you have to add fuel stabilizer to it ? Or will the boostane suffice ?

On a similar note how long is E85 good for ?

 

[eighty6gt]

e10/15 is only available at one station - Husky. They are here in the city, but I leave the city a lot. I don't want the pain in the ass of swapping tunes and what not.

I prefer to support the local co-op. They refine the fuel nearby in Regina. Really good 91 - tested by the local university folks to have the highest actual octane.

My next step is to possibly develop a spacer plate that goes under my TVS - and would produce for anyone else, provided hood clearance exists (I don't think it does....) would accept water/meth jets with access for inspection/changes. This way I could spray the crap right where the air charge is at the hottest point. I guess if the spacers that DOB makes fit then my spacer should fit.

 

[Pentalab]

e10/15 is only available at one station - Husky. They are here in the city, but I leave the city a lot. I don't want the pain in the ass of swapping tunes and what not.

I prefer to support the local co-op. They refine the fuel nearby in Regina. Really good 91 - tested by the local university folks to have the highest actual octane.

My next step is to possibly develop a spacer plate that goes under my TVS - and would produce for anyone else, provided hood clearance exists (I don't think it does....) would accept water/meth jets with access for inspection/changes. This way I could spray the crap right where the air charge is at the hottest point. I guess if the spacers that DOB makes fit then my spacer should fit.

Points well taken. Plenty of ricer folks here in town use water / meth..after talking to the head honcho asian fellow who does most of em here in town. Ran into him the other night. That would be a good place to spray, post blower. Spraying into the elbow works, since carmen and other's do it already, but it's not an optimum insertion point. I also have reservations about spraying water / meth into the elbow, with the blower bearings etc in there at each end of the rotor pack assy ?

Then you could make the spacer from AL, like 6061-T6... or some composite, but to get a sprayer in there, the spacer would have to be pretty thick. You could make it very thick with a M90 / VS-1900..and still clear the hood. About the only thing that would be sacrificed would be the STB over top the engine. I have plenty of gap between top of blower....and bottom of my steeda STB. STB appears to be made from, I think 1.125" OD CM tubing. I also have the eng lowered by 1/4"..via my steeda eng mounts. 'Easy' way to gain another 1/4 to 1/2" of clearance. My stb clears the hood... just. But that's on the..'power dome hood' on the 10-12 cars. With the stb removed, I will measure it, but on paper, it should be aprx 2.125" at least, between top of M90 and hood liner. That's a lot of wiggle room. I will measure it.

2 here in town, one of em with a GT-500, that use water- meth. They re-use the windshield washer fluid container. They tell me they get about 1 month out of it with typ street use. Easy enough to have a 2-4 Litre plastic container in the trunk at all times, with the 50-50 mix. Like use the same size jug the windshield washer liquid comes in, readily available. Then a green/yellow/red multi colour LED to monitor levels water /meth levels. The concept works, then no requirement for unobtainium gasoline.... or E85. Throw a couple jugs in the trunk..and you are set to travel out of town.

 

[JG-1]

VMP should arrive mid week I'm hoping. I just ordered the Sai Li fuel system as well.

For you guys that run blowers/turbos, do you use boost and oil pressure gauges? Or is that too Rice?

 

[travelers]

That's not rice but smart to keep an eye on what's happening. I have a boost and IAT gage