Fueling Issue

[07 Boss]

So it figures the car runs good all year and when it comes time to get her smogged she starts acting up. When cruising at no or light throttle my AF gauge stays around 12. If I try to accelerate under light or moderate load the AF ratio jumps up to 13.5 to 14. A couple of times when slowing to a stop off the gas she starts to knock like a diesel. At idle sometimes the AF is pegged so rich the gauge will not budge off of 10. Sometimes she idles right around 12.5 and sometimes she idles at normal around 14.3-15.

P0171 BANK 1 Lean
AF ratio is hinky. Runs rich when it should be lean and runs lean when should be richer.
Car starts and drive but stumbles, is under powered and sounds like shit
Fuel mileage is down by about 8-10%


I've checked for gas in the vacuum line to the frps
Changed both front O2 sensors
Checked for any intake or vacuum leaks
Reloaded tune

Not sure I can still data log with my XCal3, home computer is running on Vista which I'm not sure SCT supports anymore. I haven't done any modding to the car in the last couple of years and the same tune has been in the car. I'm usually pretty good at diagnosing issues but I'm kinda stumped on this one.

My first thought it was a pressure issue but it looks good and goes up and down accordingly with manifold pressure.

I was thinking an injector circuit ground but would that not throw a code and affect both banks on the motor? I believe the injectors all use a common ground.

I'm going to swap the injectors from side to side to see if the lean code follows it but if anybody else had any ideas, I'm open to suggestion ant this point.

I forgot to mention I have Aeromotive fuel rails and have relocated the frps from the fuel rail to off of the fuel distribution block that feeds the two sides. Not sure if that matters but thought I should mention it.

 

[datmbn]

when slowing to a stop off the gas she starts to knock like a diesel

something with the camphaser

 

[JeremyH]

Looks like you checked the normal stuff so far, one thing I would add is check for exhaust leaks upstream of the o2 sensor.

 

[46addict]

While you look over your injectors I would check to see if any are leaking. As in, turn key on/engine off with them attached to rails and look for seepage.

 

[07 Boss]

something with the camphaser

And actually I just threw a code for the cam sensor bank 2. Normally I would look at the alternator but I think I'm just gonna stop by Ford and get a new sensor this afternoon. Or do you think the actual phaser went out? Wouldn't it throw a different code? I thought I heard something funny on that side of the motor while I was driving but the car is running so shitty I can't really get a grip on if it indeed was something screwy.

Looks like you checked the normal stuff so far, one thing I would add is check for exhaust leaks upstream of the o2 sensor.

They're on the collector for the headers. No exhaust leak, well no tell tale ticking but I will give them a closer look.

While you look over your injectors I would check to see if any are leaking. As in, turn key on/engine off with them attached to rails and look for seepage.

I'm leaning towards injectors also. I think my P0345 code is unrelated to the bank 1 lean code. I have an extra set of injectors but I never cleaned them up when I took them off the car years ago. I just tossed them in a box along with the fuel rails. Probably still had gas in there and are pretty gummed up by now. If it ends up as an injector I can prolly send these out to be cleaned and flowed cheaper than a new set, no?

 

[CammedS197]

Do you have cats? I blew one out and car ran odd. I cannot remember what the AFR was doing at the time. Can you get a log of what is going on?

 

[CammedS197]

My car has not done the pig rich thing since I made the thread lol. But I have done where I turn the key on to get fuel pump on buckle up then start. I've noticed it starts better as well doing that. Just smoother start up. o2's are new if I recall, what brand did you get?

 

[Pentalab]

My car has not done the pig rich thing since I made the thread lol. But I have done where I turn the key on to get fuel pump on buckle up then start. I've noticed it starts better as well doing that. Just smoother start up. o2's are new if I recall, what brand did you get?

I noticed on my 2010 + M90 blower setup, that with car running normally, fuel rail pressure is 40 psi.
BUT, if I do the key on, eng off routine, then the rail pressure will sit at 50 psi. Start eng, and rail pressure drops back down to 40 psi. My son's friend has a ricer car, that won't start unless they do the key on, eng off routine. His pump is going doa.

Are you using the GT-500 dual pump setup on your HO whipple ? OR a BAP ? Either way, I'd use heavier gauge wire to run the fuel pump(s), like 10 or 8 gauge wire.

 

[07 Boss]

Do you have cats? I blew one out and car ran odd. I cannot remember what the AFR was doing at the time. Can you get a log of what is going on?

No cats

My car has not done the pig rich thing since I made the thread lol. But I have done where I turn the key on to get fuel pump on buckle up then start. I've noticed it starts better as well doing that. Just smoother start up. o2's are new if I recall, what brand did you get?

Brand new Ford/Motorcraft from the dealership. The parts counter there is closer than the parts store and the guy gives me a decent discount. Certain parts I just tend to like to get OEM too, less hassles sometimes. I could prolly get them cheaper but it's just easy and quick.

 

[CammedS197]

Those have been said to have issues. Lito has had many encounters with the OEM and bosch.

The NTK are the best ones and work properly with everything. I'll see if I can find the threads he sent me on here. These are the ones you want.



I think these are the OEM ones ford sells and are no bueno and on't like to work with the ECU for some reason properly.

 

[07 Boss]

Those have been said to have issues. Lito has had many encounters with the OEM and bosch.

The NTK are the best ones and work properly with everything. I'll see if I can find the threads he sent me on here. These are the ones you want.

View attachment 66926

I think these are the OEM ones ford sells and are no bueno and on't like to work with the ECU for some reason properly.
View attachment 66927

I didn't know that. Maybe I should try those before swap injectors around. I might try and data log but I'm not sure if I still can with my old ass computer.

Couple of thoughts. When I went to Ford the computer gives that pn but when you click on it it gives you a different pn which is the same as the rear sensors. I noticed the connector didn't have any of those alignment tabs on it so it can plug into the harness in either the front or the rear harness connectors. And the end is white instead of green or blue.

I am using BBK extensions on the front sensors. I used to cut and solder my sensor wires to extend them for my headers. It made it easier to swap them out without having to contort yourself to reach the harness location. I wonder if maybe that extension is hinky.

 

[07 Boss]

I noticed on my 2010 + M90 blower setup, that with car running normally, fuel rail pressure is 40 psi.
BUT, if I do the key on, eng off routine, then the rail pressure will sit at 50 psi. Start eng, and rail pressure drops back down to 40 psi. My son's friend has a ricer car, that won't start unless they do the key on, eng off routine. His pump is going doa.

Are you using the GT-500 dual pump setup on your HO whipple ? OR a BAP ? Either way, I'd use heavier gauge wire to run the fuel pump(s), like 10 or 8 gauge wire.

I have the gt500 set up. Seems to be working ok. I've been monitoring it on my gauge and it stays pretty darn steady in regards to manifold pressure.

 

[datmbn]

just gonna stop by Ford and get a new sensor

I Think that the sensor is ok but maybe the vct solinoid has get stuck (try to run the car vith them disconected )

regards Mats

 

[46addict]

I didn't know that. Maybe I should try those before swap injectors around. I might try and data log but I'm not sure if I still can with my old ass computer.

Couple of thoughts. When I went to Ford the computer gives that pn but when you click on it it gives you a different pn which is the same as the rear sensors. I noticed the connector didn't have any of those alignment tabs on it so it can plug into the harness in either the front or the rear harness connectors. And the end is white instead of green or blue.

I am using BBK extensions on the front sensors. I used to cut and solder my sensor wires to extend them for my headers. It made it easier to swap them out without having to contort yourself to reach the harness location. I wonder if maybe that extension is hinky.

Yes there is a discussion on another thread about the PNs being same for front and rear, but to my understanding (and according to Lito) they are supposed to have different calibrations since one pair is to provide info to the PCM for correct fueling, and the other is to check for cat efficiency.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/o2-sensor-help.134178/page-2#post-2420882

 

[07 Boss]

I Think that the sensor is ok but maybe the vct solinoid has get stuck (try to run the car vith them disconected )

regards Mats

I was going to pull the cam cover anyways just to have a looksie. But if the cam timing is off from what is commanded, won't it throw a different code?

 

[CammedS197]

I was going to pull the cam cover anyways just to have a looksie. But if the cam timing is off from what is commanded, won't it throw a different code?

Yes you would get a code if off by one tooth even. Because bank to bank will be off and car will run really rough and shake a lot. I was off 1 tooth at one point at cam install so took all apart and re timed, didn't know till start up and code came.

Yes there is a discussion on another thread about the PNs being same for front and rear, but to my understanding (and according to Lito) they are supposed to have different calibrations since one pair is to provide info to the PCM for correct fueling, and the other is to check for cat efficiency.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/o2-sensor-help.134178/page-2#post-2420882

Yes 07boss this is it! Read this thread about the 02's.

 

[07 Boss]

Yes you would get a code if off by one tooth even. Because bank to bank will be off and car will run really rough and shake a lot. I was off 1 tooth at one point at cam install so took all apart and re timed, didn't know till start up and code came.

Yes 07boss this is it! Read this thread about the 02's.

Already ordered a couple of the ntk/ngk sensors. Love amazon prime.

 

[CammedS197]

Already ordered a couple of the ntk/ngk sensors. Love amazon prime.

YES lol. How much from amazon shipped if you don't mind me asking? Well I see prime so free shipping lol.

 

[07 Boss]

YES lol. How much from amazon shipped if you don't mind me asking? Well I see prime so free shipping lol.

$33 each.

 

[CammedS197]

$33 each.

Not bad! Rockauto is $26 each + shipping and tax. Probably better to go through amazon!