How to tell what tune I have.

[DanB]

I recently bought an 07 GT. It has an Air Raid cold air, Ford Performance Throttle Body, and Borla cat back (I think Atak) exhaust. When I bought the car I asked the seller if it had a tune on it to account for the bolt ons. He said they were on it when he bought it and did not know.

It runs fine, has no check engine light and that I know of is not throwing any codes.

Can I assume the engine either does not need a tune for this stuff or it has one and is fine. If it is the latter, other than getting a tune is there any way to tell if it is an 87 or a 91 tune?

As I said it runs just fine. I am more curious than anything else.

Thanks

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The car should have come with the tuner that was used to reprogram the ECU. If the seller doesn't have it, the previous owner to him should. Otherwise you'd have no idea what kind of tune it has, and no means to return the ECU to the stock tune (other than an expensive visit to the Ford stealership) should you decide later on to reverse those mods. You also have no means to upload a new tune should you decide instead to add more mods.

I'd say your ECU is definitely tuned but since you don't know what grade of gas it's tuned for, play it safe and run a minimum of 91 octane. Also try to trace the guy who could potentially have the self tuner that was married to the car. If he's unmarried it or doesn't have it at all, you're out of luck there.

The only solution then is to buy your own SCT tuner, download and save your custom tune to it from the ECU, have a stock tune uploaded to the ECU by the Ford stealership, and then reload your custom tune from the SCT tuner. The tuner will then save your stock tune in addition to the custom tune. I'd highly recommend that you back up both tunes onto your PC or laptop for safe keeping.

 

[DanB]

Thank you for the detailed response. Looks like I have some detective work to do. Hopefully if I find the original owner I can get the tuner. Fingers crossed. Until then its 91 in the tank.

 

[GlassTop09]

Hi DanB,

In addition to what Dino said, your engine can actually be using the stock '07 OEM Ford tune file w\ your installed mods.......if the Airaid CAI is using the insert (comes w\ the Airaid Street 85mm CAI.....insert sets the MAF housing to the OEM stock 80mm ID.....removed it sets the MAF housing ID to 85mm) & the Ford Performance 62mm TB will actually run off the stock tune's OEM 55mm TB's PTA\EA mapping (which will not be matching the 62mm TB's physical PTA\EA sizing--TB's housing ID-to-butterfly plate OD--thus throwing the MAF airmass calcs vs the SD\ETC\LWFM airmass calcs based off the OEM 55mm TB off) as long as the CAI is compatible to the stock tune's MAF calibration tables so the PCM can make the necessary MAF correction adjustments to realign the MAF airmass\VE load calcs to match the SD\ETC\LWFM airload\VE load calcs so the proper fueling corrections are made so engine will run w\o issue & seem to be fine........just not optimized. Thus, this could also run on 87 oct fuel as the OEM 05-10 MY Ford SO stock tunes are set to use E0 87 oct fuel.

Why this is important to know if your plan is to leave all as is due to option of being able to use 87 oct fuel for the cost savings instead of 91 oct fuel. The Airaid CAI is easy to check for the insert........just remove the cone air filter & check inside the MAF housing for the insert sleeve (sleeve ID will be offset vs the outer CAI housing to align\center the sleeve ID to the MAF sensor)......if sleeve is installed then you may be still using the '07 Ford OEM stock tune......if sleeve is not installed, then your engine is using an aftermarket tune as the CAI will be using the larger MAF housing ID which will require a tune to at least correct the MAF calibration to the larger CAI MAF housing ID (wouldn't run right w\o a tune to fix this). If the CAI installed is the Airaid Race 95mm CAI, then it will definitely be tuned as this CAI didn't come w\ an insert to convert its MAF housing ID back to stock ID.

This is 1 way to help you determine if your car has been tuned or not w\o having the tuner.

Hope this helps.

 

[JC SSP]

I always thought the 60mm+ TB required a tune?

Is there any way he can connect a scanner and data-log to see if parameters have been altered (i.e., timing, etc.)

 

[GlassTop09]

I always thought the 60mm+ TB required a tune?

Is there any way he can connect a scanner and data-log to see if parameters have been altered (i.e., timing, etc.)

Yes JC SSP, they should have the OEM 55mm TB's in-tune PTA\EA mapping recharacterized to fit\match the larger TB's physical PTA\EA sizing to accurately correct the in-tune SD\ETC\LWFM airmass\VE load calcs to match up w\ the MAF read airmass\VE load calcs off the physical larger TB's PTA\EA sizing at the same TB TPS\TBA.......but as long as the MAF calibration thru the CAI MAF housing & the LWFM in-tune mapping is in agreement (this map is calibrated off the actual MAF calibration after smoothing is applied to the MAF sensor voltage output signal & is the in-tune mapping that the ECU uses to compare\back check the MAF sensor output operation), the ECU can\will make the necessary airmass\VE load calc correction adjustments to then make the necessary fueling correction adjustments to counter this mismatch--if MAF Adaption is enabled in tune calibration, enabled by default) so engine will run w\o issue......as long as the TB TPS KOEO calibration between the 2 different TB's is within the ECU's TPS offset voltage range so the ECU sees them as the "same". This is why a Ford Performance twin TB can do this as Ford calibrates all their twin TB's TPS initial KOEO voltage output to fall between 1.19v to 1.21v so this will fall within the ECU's TPS initial max KOEO voltage output range offset of 1.16v to 1.23v. Is also why you reset a BBK #1763 62mm TB's TPS stop to mimic the OEM 55mm TB's initial TPS voltage output at KOEO........

This is also why a lot of tuners say that a 62mm TB doesn't do\provide anything vs an OEM 55mm TB........which is not really true......but is "correct" IF this in-tune TB PTA\EA mapping isn't corrected from the OEM 55mm TB to match the larger TB's physical PTA\EA sizing.

So, a FP 60mm+ TB "can" run Ok on a stock '05-'10 GT tune calibration........up to a point......depending on how much air mass flow is bypassing the TB thru the PCV system at idle\low RPM's (this can cause larger twin TBs airflow control thus engine control issues vs the OEM twin 55mm TB). The Ford Performance 62mm TB is designed to operate using all OEM PCV setup (it's right at the edge of low RPM\idle controllability) so a FP 60mm TB will also operate Ok on an OEM stock GT tune file........

As long as the twin TB used is a Ford design\setup, the exact same in-tune ETC control settings outside of the PTA\EA mapping was used to tune them as was the OEM 55mm TB, thus they'll operate on a '07 GT's tune calibration just as well as a '07 GT500's tune calibration.

I know this as a fact.......have personally witnessed, used a stock '10 GT500's 60mm TB's PTA\EA in-tune mapping in my '09 GT's tune calibration to better match my FP 62mm TB & have fully corrected the '10 GT500 60mm TB's in-tune PTA\EA mapping to properly fit\match my FP 62mm TB's physical PTA\EA sizing w\ my GT's tune calibration w\o any operational issues but got massive performance gains in throttle tip-in\acceleration once this was properly fixed along w\ properly resetting transient fueling to fully match the FP 62mm TB's initial airmass flow capabilities off any TBA\TPS movements to arrest initial A\F leanout causing initial engine stumble\detonation....up to & including WOT....in tune calibration.

This is not the easiest to pick up\out these setting differences thru a datalog w\o a known good reference datalog to use to compare...........

Be better off to just get fully retuned......properly.

 

[DanB]

Thanks GlassTop09. I admit a lot this is way over my head, but I will pull the Airaid and check for the insert. In the end, I think I am just going to go to Brenspeed since they are local and get it fully retuned, just to make sure it is OK.

 

[Laga]

Thanks GlassTop09. I think I am just going to go to Brenspeed

Good luck with that.

 

[GlassTop09]

Thanks GlassTop09. I admit a lot this is way over my head, but I will pull the Airaid and check for the insert. In the end, I think I am just going to go to Brenspeed since they are local and get it fully retuned, just to make sure it is OK.

Here is a description of this Airaid CAI showing the 80mm insert installed inside of the tube. This insert is what makes this CAI to not need a tune, thus can run off the stock tune w\o any tune MAF recalibrations necessary:
Airaid Mustang Cold Air Intake Kit (05-09) 4.6 - LMR
450-172 Instructions.pub (cachefly.net)
Without that insert installed, this CAI will need a tune revision to correct the MAF calibration so all will be correct tune-wise.

As for the rest (the FP 62mm TB in particular), a retune from a reputable tuner would be the best way for you to know where all is at since you didn't receive the tuner when you bought the car............unless the original PO had the car tuned by a shop after installing the parts (this can be done w\o the PO needing a SCT tuner) or as I have already stated in prior posting.....all installed using the stock tune.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I always thought the 60mm+ TB required a tune?

Any TB larger than the stock 55mm unit will require a tune because the mass of air flowing through it will be greater at any given throttle angle.
That said, upgrading to a larger bore TB is a waste of money unless you've also upgraded to a Ford Performance intake manifold +/- cams or CNC heads. If you only have simple bolt ons like me, porting the stock throttle body is enough to improve airflow velocity and add a little torque as well as sharper throttle response (see pic below).



Finally, a no tune CAI is another complete waste of money because you'll gain zero HP. The performance gain comes from the tune so sticking with the stock tune defeats the whole purpose of adding a CAI (actually a hot air intake in some cases). You're much better off keeping the stock airbox and getting a custom tune. The MAF transfer curve would remain unaltered but the fuel/timing curves are optimized across the rpm range and under varying degrees of engine load.