My cam journals and cams are ruined....come see the freak show.

[swflastang05]

What do you think happened?

For this kind of damage you would think an oil pressure warning or light would have shown.


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I'm not sure but would anticipate it might be related to an oil pump failure, as mentioned previously. But I'm also curious if there's any damage to the bearings in the SB.

I can confirm the oil pressure in the past 5 motors I've had in my car has ranged b/w 20-30 psi @ hot idle, with the sensor plumbed in by the oil filter. This includes the OEM motor before I pulled it, as well as the 4 motors that I've built over the past few years. My current motor has the lowest pressure, since it has the most bearing clearance but it's usually around 22-25 psi @ hot idle, this is with crappy Castrol 10w-30 dino oil that I'm using to break in the new motor. I will soon switch to DT40 Driven 10w-40 which will increase the pressure a bit.

 

[bl817]

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pts/d/fully-built-stroked-ford-46-3/6250591220.html

possible option, already built. sorry bout your engine bro.

 

[tjm73]

I have looked at these pics several times the past couple days and it just looks like oil starvation to me.

I know it's cheaper and faster for Ford to make the modular heads they way they do, but it is not an easily serviceable design IMO. When the 2V arrived in the Mustang in 1996 I wondered how you serviced a bad cam bearing surface. I always thought the heads should have insert bearings for the camshafts.

 

[slackinoff]

I'm not sure but would anticipate it might be related to an oil pump failure, as mentioned previously. But I'm also curious if there's any damage to the bearings in the SB.

I can confirm the oil pressure in the past 5 motors I've had in my car has ranged b/w 20-30 psi @ hot idle, with the sensor plumbed in by the oil filter. This includes the OEM motor before I pulled it, as well as the 4 motors that I've built over the past few years. My current motor has the lowest pressure, since it has the most bearing clearance but it's usually around 22-25 psi @ hot idle, this is with crappy Castrol 10w-30 dino oil that I'm using to break in the new motor. I will soon switch to DT40 Driven 10w-40 which will increase the pressure a bit.

Thank you. Interesting and good info for reference in the future.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pts/d/fully-built-stroked-ford-46-3/6250591220.html

possible option, already built. sorry bout your engine bro.

Wow. Dang that is tempting.

I have looked at these pics several times the past couple days and it just looks like oil starvation to me.

I know it's cheaper and faster for Ford to make the modular heads they way they do, but it is not an easily serviceable design IMO. When the 2V arrived in the Mustang in 1996 I wondered how you serviced a bad cam bearing surface. I always thought the heads should have insert bearings for the camshafts.

I agree. Especially if you had some big money involved with porting, that would suck! Aparently Ford was extremely confident in their top end lube design......I seemed to have found a in their armor.

In another thread here, a user has found a company that makes bearings for a situation like what I have going on. I will get that info onto this thread even if I don't go that rpute; for reference to anyone else in the future.



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[Juice]

Sorry about your engine. I don't see any blueing/discoloration on those journals. Oil starvation is usually very obvious and I just don't see it in the pics.

I've seen my share of aluminum head cam journals at very high milages. That looks pretty normal to me. I would bet more on possible debris of some sort in the oil or just plain old worn out.

 

[Wes06]

Thanks swfl, I was wondering what a good hot pressure is because my gauge reads 23ish or so idle and hot and was wondering if that was low or not.

 

[slackinoff]

Sorry about your engine. I don't see any blueing/discoloration on those journals. Oil starvation is usually very obvious and I just don't see it in the pics.

I've seen my share of aluminum head cam journals at very high milages. That looks pretty normal to me. I would bet more on possible debris of some sort in the oil or just plain old worn out.

How come there was no debris in the VCT screens? Is it clogged internally? Why would this damage cause the VCT to stick retarded?

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[eighty6gt]

Pull your oil pump apart soon. Or reassemble, add a gauge, fire back up.

 

[SVT Rider]

what oil psi are others running at hot idle?

Measured from oil filter adapter using 5w-20 Motorcraft (gauge in-line with OEM oil sender):
28-30 PSI @ hot idle
70 PSI @ cold idle
~50-60 PSI @ hot 2000rpm

My oil pressure was a measly 17 PSI last year before I changed out the oil pump and re-did the timing system (timing tensioners had blown their seals, which is a common problem in this engine and the truck 5.4L). The VCT solenoids need at least 25 PSI to do their job to actuate the cams, and the engine isn't happy if it falls below ~20 PSI.

What do you think happened?

For this kind of damage you would think an oil pressure warning or light would have shown.

The dummy oil pressure sender from Ford is a piece of crap switch-on at <5 psi. By that point your engine is in a world of hurt. You really can't rely on an OEM pressure warning light.

 

[slackinoff]

Pull your oil pump apart soon. Or reassemble, add a gauge, fire back up.

Yea? Man that is tempting now that I think I have a good daily lined up. I can take my time. Will post pics tomorrow of bland cheap daily.....it's so bland its hilarious.

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[RocketcarX]

Almost 200K miles?
I would just call it wore out and replace it with a good used engine unless you have plans of needing more than 500 HP
It is certainly oil pressure related, in OHC engines the cams always suffer first. For what it's worth I have never seen any make of OHC with cam bearings, it just adds complexity when you consider in 8 or 9 out of 10 failures the cam journals aren't a concern for the overhaul.

 

[TexasBlownV8]

It does look like oil starvation or bad oil.
FYI, there is no stock oil pressure "gauge": just a dummy gauge from a on/off pressure switch.

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

I want a 7k+ capable 3v that puts 400 to 420 to the tires.

The highest output I've ever seen from a N/A 4.6 3v is 392rwhp SAE, and that had just about everything you could throw at it except for E85. You'll need a stroker bottom end to get past 400rwhp.

I'd expect a healthy 4.6 engine with factory clearances and 5W-20 oil to have a hot idle oil pressure of 25-30psi or around 2 bar. Slightly less on a high mileage engine or an engine built with looser clearances is acceptable.

 

[slackinoff]

The highest output I've ever seen from a N/A 4.6 3v is 392rwhp SAE, and that had just about everything you could throw at it except for E85. You'll need a stroker bottom end to get past 400rwhp.

I'd expect a healthy 4.6 engine with factory clearances and 5W-20 oil to have a hot idle oil pressure of 25-30psi or around 2 bar. Slightly less on a high mileage engine or an engine built with looser clearances is acceptable.

Hmmm....I was having plenty fun with the car where it was at ( 290 -300 to the tire?) So another it 75hp would be fine for me. I also want to build it to rev, I would love to be able to take it to 7.1 or 7.3k rpm. Thanks for your input my friend.

It does look like oil starvation or bad oil.
FYI, there is no stock oil pressure "gauge": just a dummy gauge from a on/off pressure switch.

I should have known better, I was just in the process of getting ready to do a SOS radio gauge pod. One was going to be oil pressure.

Almost 200K miles?
I would just call it wore out and replace it with a good used engine unless you have plans of needing more than 500 HP
It is certainly oil pressure related, in OHC engines the cams always suffer first. For what it's worth I have never seen any make of OHC with cam bearings, it just adds complexity when you consider in 8 or 9 out of 10 failures the cam journals aren't a concern for the overhaul.

Yep, wow. Well I guess I just had more faith in the car than reality. I had an oil analysis done about the 3rd month in of owning the car, the oil I sent them was not a sample of being easy on the car. Report came back great.....well dam. Thank you for your input, much appreciated.

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[slackinoff]

Here are the bearings I mentioned earlier. Thanks to Tjm72

Direct link to product http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DURA-BOND-FA...ash=item46596cdc4c:g:GrkAAOSw1~JZR5Dz&vxp=mtr

http://www.dura-bondbearing.com/

Dura-Bond Bearing Company
3200 Arrowhead Drive
Carson City, Nevada 89706

Phone: 775-883-8998
Fax: 775-883-9497

I talked to a well respected machine shop about these. He said has seen them installed before and that they do a great job. But he did not have the tooling to do the job.....so my next question to him was what tooling is needed? I was under the impression from tjm72 the install is pretty academic for any good machine shop. The machine shop I talked to does all sorts of stuff - has an amazing IG account....maybe he just didn't want to mess with it.

 

[Badd GT]

You need to line-bore your cam towers

 

[slackinoff]

You need to line-bore your cam towers

Thanks. I have had several people refer me to Ray Engine in Tyler. Spoke to Charlie there and he was very familiar with the Dura Bond type fix for OHC engines since virtually no OHC engine runs bearings.

For future reference,
Ray Engine in Tyler Tx
903-531-2336

They work on mod motors all day everyday. From a normal rebuild to high performance. Like the other machine shop I spoke with, Ray Engine does not have the tooling to do the Line Bore on the OHC head- it's such a small bore and needs a smaller tool/machine. They give that work to another guy in town. He specializes in exactly what we are talking about. Fitting bearings into OHC heads. Will update with his info here in a bit.

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[Wes06]

Slack.
For a really good na higher revving motor you probably want the big boss block. 4.6 based block sleeved at 5.0 on stock stroke.
Shorter stroke can Rev higher safer and the bigger bore gives better air flow in and out of the valves

 

[eighty6gt]

I would not build a high revving motor. Build an engine using all stock components save for the pistons and rods (I believe Bruce had luck with ebay rods,) probably manley pistons from modmax. Supercharge it. With a DOB system you would be nearly even money vs. buying cams, exhaust, etc. You can use the stock headers and an offroad h.

Good luck!

 

[RocketcarX]

Put a stock engine in it and spray it to your HP goal. Done.
The cam bearing deal is not common, I would imagine most standard machine shops aren't set up for it.
How much are you looking at spending at this point...I would be after a set of FRPP heads as cheap as they are.