NYS emissions

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

Mine is a 2010 auto...with the 4.6 L + M90 blower. 94 tune. Lito had it down to a fine art, where he could tweak the tune to pass emissions, and not shut the rear o2's off in the tune. But I had VMP tune mine..and also send me a tune that did shut off the rear o2's.... then like an idiot, it ended up in my junk file..which got deleted in error. Now VMP will not shut off rear O2 sensors. I like the idea of having them on...then at least can read cat temps. If either one started to clog, its temp will also rise.

The L shaped SS non foulers don't stick out a mile like the straight ones. What ever combo works is good.

I'd sure like to know Lito's secret lol. In fact if I had the ability to datalog, I would've upgraded from my Brenspeed tunes to either Lito or Lund by now.. Unfortunately I still to this day do not own a laptop nor have an O2 sensor port/bung available to connect to one anyhow..

At any rate, I'll either look into doubling the non-foulers or just bite the bullet and go with the mini cat O2 extenders.. Just not quite sure yet at this point..

My brothers 03 GT runs stock manifold, no cats and a Mac prochamber and cat back. Passes NYS every year. He has those MIL eliminators I think they are called

I’ve tried tbe Non Foulers on my 06 without cats and I still got a CEL with the rear o2s turned on. Never tried doubling them up or a 90* turn style one either.

My main goal is to run long tubes but I’ve always been told they won’t pass NY emissions.

So it sounds like it has to be those mini cats or double non foulers or a 90* and a straight t. I’m just really hesitant on buying the long tubes to have them not work. It’s money I’m trying to save for the B326!!!

It's more than likely the Mil eliminators your brother has is the reason his car passes.. Unfortunately those eliminators will not function on 05-10 3V and 11-current Coyote models nor are they available anyhow..

From my understanding, if you double up on the non-foulers, you won't get any CEL's, as doubling them up moves the path of the exhaust gases further away from the O2 sensors by tricking them into thinking there are still cats restricting airflow.. At this point, I'm still not quite decided on either the mini cats or going the double non-fouler route.. As for buying LT's, I'm also just as hesitant as you are for the very same reasons

 

[07 Boss]

I used to have an old BAMA tune from Doug that used to get me by OBD testing with no cats and no sensors even in the car. Then I had Shelby here in town dyno tune it and they either didn't know or didn't want to try that, so that is how I got back into switching mid pipes, cat sims and now these things. They work I have been driving on my emissions tune with the sensors turned on all year this year (gets 2 more MPG than my regular tune) and have never had a CEL come up. Almost time to go get a smog which will be my second go around with these. They work great for me.

 

[BLKS197]

OP, I assume that you have a 2006 3V s197 based upon your user name. I am in Buffalo, NY and have a 2006 which has passed NYSI every year since 2010 by using O2 simulators from the 96-04 modular 2V cars. I can say from personal experience that they work in my 2006. Last I checked, you can grab a set from American Muscle for $50.00. I have passed with stock manifolds and an O/R H as well as with long tubes and O/R X. This trick does not work with later (2007+) S197's from my experience, and you need to make sure that your rear O2 sensors are turned on.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

OP, I assume that you have a 2006 3V s197 based upon your user name. I am in Buffalo, NY and have a 2006 which has passed NYSI every year since 2010 by using O2 simulators from the 96-04 modular 2V cars. I can say from personal experience that they work in my 2006. Last I checked, you can grab a set from American Muscle for $50.00. I have passed with stock manifolds and an O/R H as well as with long tubes and O/R X. This trick does not work with later (2007+) S197's from my experience, and you need to make sure that your rear O2 sensors are turned on.

I also thought the 02 simulators from the 96-04 2V cars wouldn't work on the 05-06 S197 models either.. So what exactly did Ford change in 07 from 06, as I'm totally unaware of any changes made to the ECM.. I also assume that being as your running an O/R H, your also able to get past visual inspection and still pass ?

 

[BLKS197]

I don’t know what the precise change was, but I know I have tried to help friends with 2007+ to no avail. My rough understanding is that the PCM in the 05-06 cars looks for a different heater resistance from the 02 sensor than what it looks for in 07+. I may be wrong on that being the exact reason why it works.


With respect to visual, I am friends with enough licensed inspectors that a visual inspection is not a concern.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

You would think if the PCM in the 05-06 cars look for the same heater resistance from the 02 sensor as the 99-04 2V cars, the Mil eliminators would be listed as compatible for the 05-06 S197 3V models as well.. However after reading the product description on american muscle's website, I noticed 2 responses under the Q&A section that claim the SR plug in Mil Eliminators are designed to work only on the 99-04 Mustangs, but there's no mention or explanation provided for the reason they are not compatible.. What I'd like to know from AM, is have they ever tested these on the 05-06 cars before claiming they're only designed to work on the older SN-95 99-04 2V cars In the meantime, I'll be looking further into the SR eliminators for my 06 GT as a possible alternative for getting past OBDII emissions testing in the event I end up going over the 5k mile per year limit under PA emission exemption law requirements.. And yes, It most definitely helps when you have friends who are inspectors to where a visual inspection is no longer a concern lol. I also noticed that your in Buffalo.. Anyhow I'm originally from Lockport myself

 

[Juice]

I know first hand that those mil eliminators did NOT work for 100% of 99-04 cars, but it does work for most of them.

Here is my understanding on how this rear 02 monitoring works. The PCM is comparing the front & rear 02 sensors. It is looking for a slower switching on the rear 02s, and that way the PCM knows the cats are doing their job.

I did emission testing for about 15 years, and the limits are getting tighter and tighter each year. (I think we pretty much reached the limit at this time on what is possible with engine management/fuel/engine design/catalyst design.) Anyway, this is why I believe the mil eliminators won't work on as many of the newer cars - tighter emission limits. They may work on some.

You can forget about getting answers from AM. Not many ppl working there actually know cars unfortunately. And the good ones are jumping ship regularly. lol Didn't you notice that AM is just about always hiring?

 

[BLKS197]

You would think if the PCM in the 05-06 cars look for the same heater resistance from the 02 sensor as the 99-04 2V cars, the Mil eliminators would be listed as compatible for the 05-06 S197 3V models as well.. However after reading the product description on american muscle's website, I noticed 2 responses under the Q&A section that claim the SR plug in Mil Eliminators are designed to work only on the 99-04 Mustangs, but there's no mention or explanation provided for the reason they are not compatible.. What I'd like to know from AM, is have they ever tested these on the 05-06 cars before claiming they're only designed to work on the older SN-95 99-04 2V cars In the meantime, I'll be looking further into the SR eliminators for my 06 GT as a possible alternative for getting past OBDII emissions testing in the event I end up going over the 5k mile per year limit under PA emission exemption law requirements.. And yes, It most definitely helps when you have friends who are inspectors to where a visual inspection is no longer a concern lol. I also noticed that your in Buffalo.. Anyhow I'm originally from Lockport myself

Nice, I say I am from Buffalo generally, but I am specifically from Pendleton, NY.

 

[stkjock]

Ted - so other than the O2s, is the balance of the car's emissions "stock"

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I know first hand that those mil eliminators did NOT work for 100% of 99-04 cars, but it does work for most of them.

Here is my understanding on how this rear 02 monitoring works. The PCM is comparing the front & rear 02 sensors. It is looking for a slower switching on the rear 02s, and that way the PCM knows the cats are doing their job.

I did emission testing for about 15 years, and the limits are getting tighter and tighter each year. (I think we pretty much reached the limit at this time on what is possible with engine management/fuel/engine design/catalyst design.)

Anyway, this is why I believe the mil eliminators won't work on as many of the newer cars - tighter emission limits. They may work on some.

So from your personal experience doing emissions testing.. In your honest opinion, would the mil eliminators also work on most of the older 2005-06 S197 3V's or would the o2 mini cat extension/non-foulers be more effective ?

You can forget about getting answers from AM. Not many ppl working there actually know cars unfortunately. And the good ones are jumping ship regularly. lol Didn't you notice that AM is just about always hiring?

I know from personal experience about AM not knowing cars which is exactly my reason for getting fed up wasting my time on them and finally ended up taking my business elsewhere.. At any rate, I pretty much take what they claim with a grain of salt lol.

Nice, I say I am from Buffalo generally, but I am specifically from Pendleton, NY.

Pendleton is even closer to Lockport than Buffalo.. IIRC it's actually between Amherst and Lockport if my memory is accurate lol.

 

[Juice]

My bet is on the "mini cats" having the best chance of working. The rear 02's are looking for the effects of cats on the exhaust. The difference between the upstream and downstream 02 sensors is how the PCM knows if the cat is working or failing. Any other method to slow the rear 02s switching "may" work. Put a cat in there, and it "should" work.

Ideally, the mini cat should be mounted on the inside of the pipe in the exhaust flow. Not in an 02 extension like the anti-foulers. Ofcourse, to pass visual, you need the "appearance" of cats (gutted shells).

Disclaimer: this is a discussion on theory of operation. I'm not advocating the use of these devices. I run high flow cats for the simplicity of ease of passing the emissions test.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

My bet is on the "mini cats" having the best chance of working. The rear 02's are looking for the effects of cats on the exhaust. The difference between the upstream and downstream 02 sensors is how the PCM knows if the cat is working or failing. Any other method to slow the rear 02s switching "may" work. Put a cat in there, and it "should" work.

Ideally, the mini cat should be mounted on the inside of the pipe in the exhaust flow. Not in an 02 extension like the anti-foulers. Ofcourse, to pass visual, you need the "appearance" of cats (gutted shells).

Disclaimer: this is a discussion on theory of operation. I'm not advocating the use of these devices. I run high flow cats for the simplicity of ease of passing the emissions test.

Just to be certain we're on the same page, the mini cats I'm referring to are also o2 extension anti-foulers.. Therefore what I'm not quite understanding is your definition of mounting the mini cat on the inside of the pipe in the exhaust flow and not in an o2 extension like the anti-foulers..

At any rate, can you please clarify your definition just to make certain we're both on the same page.. It's also from my understanding that just running high-flow cats alone may not be quite enough for passing the OBDII emissions test which is the purpose behind adding either mil eliminators or o2 extension anti-fouler/mini cats to begin with

 

[07 Boss]

An anti-fouler will not have the catalytic substrate in it. They are actually for spark plugs. Anti-foulers just pull the sensor out of the main exhaust stream which in some cases may work. The mini cat is an actual catalytic material that will simulate the sensor being downstream from the converters.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

An anti-fouler will not have the catalytic substrate in it. They are actually for spark plugs. Anti-foulers just pull the sensor out of the main exhaust stream which in some cases may work. The mini cat is an actual catalytic material that will simulate the sensor being downstream from the converters.

So exactly how does the mini cat simulate the sensor being downstream from the converters if there are no high-flow/full size converters present or none at all for that matter

 

[Juice]

Just to be certain we're on the same page, the mini cats I'm referring to are also o2 extension anti-foulers.. Therefore what I'm not quite understanding is your definition of mounting the mini cat on the inside of the pipe in the exhaust flow and not in an o2 extension like the anti-foulers..

At any rate, can you please clarify your definition just to make certain we're both on the same page.. It's also from my understanding that just running high-flow cats alone may not be quite enough for passing the OBDII emissions test which is the purpose behind adding either mil eliminators or o2 extension anti-fouler/mini cats to begin with

I was assuming we are talking OFF ROAD pipe, and passing smog. (OBD2 plugin test)

The PCM is looking for the effects of a catalyst between the upstream and downstream 02 sensors. The mini cats do exactly that, place a catalyst between the two oxygen sensors. By placing the mini cats in an extension/non fouler, is the easiest way to add the cats before the rear 02 sensors.

A high flow 49 state certified catalytic converter should not trip a CEL and pass smog. It should not need non foulers or mini cats.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I was assuming we are talking OFF ROAD pipe, and passing smog. (OBD2 plugin test)

The PCM is looking for the effects of a catalyst between the upstream and downstream 02 sensors. The mini cats do exactly that, place a catalyst between the two oxygen sensors. By placing the mini cats in an extension/non fouler, is the easiest way to add the cats before the rear 02 sensors.

A high flow 49 state certified catalytic converter should not trip a CEL and pass smog. It should not need non foulers or mini cats.

For the most part, yes I'm referring to off road passing smog (OBDII) plug in test.. So if I understand your post accurately, are you referring to using mini cats and o2 extension/non foulers together and then placing the mini cat portion before the rear o2 sensors.. Would that be considered as accurate ?

As far as high-flow 49 state converters are concerned, which would you recommend best for passing OBDII smog testing ? as I'm also considering these as a possible option as well.. My top choices for consideration would be either Magnaflow 59956 universal spun metallic 200 cell high-flow cats or Thunderbolt 415250 spun metallic 300 cell high-flow cats.. If in the event should I decide to go the high-flow cat option, they would need to be metallic due that I'm running FI/PD supercharged..

However I'd much prefer staying with my current off road setup, if possible

 

[Juice]

For the most part, yes I'm referring to off road passing smog (OBDII) plug in test.. So if I understand your post accurately, are you referring to using mini cats and o2 extension/non foulers together and then placing the mini cat portion before the rear o2 sensors.. Would that be considered as accurate ?

As far as high-flow 49 state converters are concerned, which would you recommend best for passing OBDII smog testing ? as I'm also considering these as a possible option as well.. My top choices for consideration would be either Magnaflow 59956 universal spun metallic 200 cell high-flow cats or Thunderbolt 415250 spun metallic 300 cell high-flow cats.. If in the event should I decide to go the high-flow cat option, they would need to be metallic due that I'm running FI/PD supercharged..

However I'd much prefer staying with my current off road setup, if possible

I would not be able to recommend which catalytic converter would work for sure. I'm running the Magnaflow Catted X (that part number 59956, soundsvery familiar). But I have not been able to get my cat & 02 monitors to run yet due to my tune.

I would try the mini cats first before spending $$$ on cats.

You may be looking at midpipe swapping for emissions. Do you still have the factory cats?

So currently, do you have the rear 02s off or is the CEL on?

Ps: your request got lost due to the board update.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I would not be able to recommend which catalytic converter would work for sure. I'm running the Magnaflow Catted X (that part number 59956, soundsvery familiar). But I have not been able to get my cat & 02 monitors to run yet due to my tune.

I would try the mini cats first before spending $$$ on cats.

You may be looking at midpipe swapping for emissions. Do you still have the factory cats?

So currently, do you have the rear 02s off or is the CEL on?

Ps: your request got lost due to the board update.

Sounds like you'll need to have your rear 02 sensors turned back on in the tune first before your cat and 02 monitors will be able to run again.. As for trying the mini cats, I'm still considering them.. However I've also read on other forums about the mini cats getting clogged up and then having to replace them, so I'm kind of on the fence about them especially when your looking at $100.00 for just 2 of them.. Anyway to answer your questions, yes I still have the factory catted mid pipe just in case it becomes necessary to swap for emissions, but only as a last resort.. As It's such a pain in the ass having to put up the car on jack stands, then crawling underneath on your back just to swap out midpipes.. If only I had access to a lift lol.

As for getting any CEL's, I have my rear 02's turned off in the tune I'm currently running.. Therefore I'm not having any issues with CEL's at all.. I can also reload my previous tune at anytime that was being used while I was still running the factory cats in which I did NOT have the rear 02's turned off in that tune.. So I've got that covered as well..

 

[Juice]

I can see the mini cats clogging up after some time them being very small. Install the mini cats just for emissions, and take them back off after the test? That is a lot easier to swap out than the mid pipe.

I wish it was a simple as turning the 02s back on in my tune. I'm currently running the "Coyote Control Pack" tune and it does not support emission monitoring or cruise.

 

[06 T-RED S/C GT]

I can see the mini cats clogging up after some time them being very small. Install the mini cats just for emissions, and take them back off after the test? That is a lot easier to swap out than the mid pipe.

I wish it was a simple as turning the 02s back on in my tune. I'm currently running the "Coyote Control Pack" tune and it does not support emission monitoring or cruise.

Good point about installing the mini cats just for emissions and then taking them back off following the OBDII test.. As for the "Coyote Control Pack" tune your currently running, I'm not really familiar with the 5.0 Coyote 4V tunes.. Therefore I can only suggest going with an aftermarket tune which has your 02 sensors turned on, if possible