TTY vs. ARP

[s8v4o]

Clean out the block threads and make sure you use the ARP assembly lube and torque per their spec!!

I thought that's where mistakes were being made? Doesn't ARP call for some really high torque specs?

 

[ford20]

Zero issues with arp, you need to take the same precautions with any hardware and aluminum threads. Use the assembly lube and follow the torque procedures.

Doesn't ARP say to use 100 ft./lb for the torque while other Modular builders are recommending 85 ft./lb? IIRC there are people who keep cracking blocks while going with the 100ft./lb.taht ARP recommends.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Didn't ARP revise their instructions? Damn, just checked them...they still spec 100 ft/lbs.

You are better off researching the correct torques on those bolts/studs.

Again, thats why I personally recommend OEM TTY...we know it works the first time and every time. lol No guessing...

 

[JeremyH]

Mine are torqued to 100 with the assembly lube.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Mine are torqued to 100 with the assembly lube.

Without issues?

I know there have been a few issues, primarily installation issues.

First the stud should not be screwed in all the way down until it bottoms out.
Second, the stud should not be torqued either, just finger tight. Basically you are just setting the depth for the stud.
Third, the use of the ARP assembly lube which is the most critical...not using it or using the wrong lube will yield lower final torques. My buddy had a head leak because he torqued them dry... sigh

But keep gathering torque data and see who has not had failures.

 

[JeremyH]

None. Motor has been solid since the build in late 2009. The proper 3v studs don't bottom out unless you force them to which throws the height off, it was before they were available and guys used the 2v/4v studs that you had to be careful not to bottom them out as they are longer. I almost had to get them as the 3v version hadn't been released yet and were just coming out but I waited and got the 3v specific ones. And yeah just followed the assembley directions and used the lube as required to get the proper torque 100 ft/lbs on the nuts and it was easy. My buddy who was helping me has lot of experience and it was a breeze. If you don't have experience with it its good to do the research and follow the directions for sure.

 

[thump_rrr]

None. Motor has been solid since the build in late 2009. The proper 3v studs don't bottom out unless you force them to which throws the height off, it was before they were available and guys used the 2v/4v studs that you had to be careful not to bottom them out as they are longer. I almost had to get them as the 3v version hadn't been released yet and were just coming out but I waited and got the 3v specific ones. And yeah just followed the assembley directions and used the lube as required to get the proper torque 100 ft/lbs on the nuts and it was easy. My buddy who was helping me has lot of experience and it was a breeze. If you don't have experience with it its good to do the research and follow the directions for sure.

Actually you are incorrect in stating that the ARP studs should not be bottomed out. ARP instructions state that the threads must be chased and the studs installed hand tight into the block.
It is the older 2V/4V studs that were shorter and could not be completely threaded.

The funny thing is I am quoting you.
So your current statement contradicts your previous statement which was correct.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=370913&postcount=3

My shop would not installed them. I had the 2V/4V arp studs (only ones available at the time when i bought them), which are too short for the 3V head. They can be used but they dont seat all the way down so you have to back them out and loctite them. Shop didnt want to do it and i agreed why risk it so i had to get the 3V studs.

 

[swflastang05]

I'm one of the idiots that cracked a block by not properly installing the ARP studs. Last year I cracked a good block in 3 places due to allowing the studs to turn during the torque sequence then finally running out of threads in the block which resulted in cracking from the pressure. I learned "a" proper method that actually works from a very well known engine builder. He advised do not bottom the studs and do not allow them to turn during the torque sequence. This is achieved by not applying lube to the surface of the head or bottom of the washer. Then torque to 100 lbs ARP spec.

 

[thump_rrr]

I'm one of the idiots that cracked a block by not properly installing the ARP studs. Last year I cracked a good block in 3 places due to allowing the studs to turn during the torque sequence then finally running out of threads in the block which resulted in cracking from the pressure. I learned "a" proper method that actually works from a very well known engine builder. He advised do not bottom the studs and do not allow them to turn during the torque sequence. This is achieved by not applying lube to the surface of the head or bottom of the washer. Then torque to 100 lbs ARP spec.

The ARP studs have an allen wrench hex cut into the upper end of the studs.
The studs can be held in place using an allen wrench and the nuts can be torqued using a crowfoot wrench adapter.
They can also be installed using low or medium strength Loctite.
My engine builder JDM recommends that ARP head studs be torqued to 70ft-lbs.

 

[JeremyH]

Ahh, looks like somehow I had it remembered backwards from when we did it back then. Must have been thinking of when we had the wrong ones initially. That does sound correct and I know we did 100ft/lbs and didn't have a problem.

 

[weather man]

No trouble with mine, but mine were done by a master engine builder who has done A LOT of modular engines.

 

[tnsaleen]

Auto x: yes the car will be on e85, and also a pump gas tune for 10-12 psi.

I appreciate all the feedback. The thread that I read where someone who cracked the block (sorry, can't remember the OP name), actually cut his block in half. The studs never did bottom out in the block, but I think he torqued his to 100 ft/lbs. From what I have been reading 85 ft/lbs seems to be the magic number.

However, I do think I am going to go with TTY. In my mind the worst that can happen is it lifting the head. I don't think I'll be pushing it past 20psi, and the majority of the time it will be around 10-12 on e85, as this is 95% a street car.

 

[ford20]

Yeah ..... I think I'm just going to go TTY, on a N/A motor those should be fine.

 

[P-51 Performance]

The ARP studs have an allen wrench hex cut into the upper end of the studs.
The studs can be held in place using an allen wrench and the nuts can be torqued using a crowfoot wrench adapter.
They can also be installed using low or medium strength Loctite.
My engine builder JDM recommends that ARP head studs be torqued to 70ft-lbs.

what do you yall mean by not allowing it to bottom out? like not letting the stud reach the bottom of the threads where it completely stops?

 

[tnsaleen]

From what I have seen, the stud doesn't bottom out it the block. This is from the guy who cut his block in half. There are still 3-4 threads. It's the shank of the stud that stops at the top of the threaded part.