Throwback: BMR's 2005 S197 Mustang Build, 1000+HP Pushrod

[Rick Simons]

I just want to know where to buy one of those blond headed things for my car. Are they expensive? Noisy? Expensive to maintain? What do they weigh?

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

In a dedicated drag car, you're not concerned about everyday drivability and emissions so you can stick the biggest capacity Ford pushrod engine that'll fit in the S197 engine bay (e.g. 460 Big Block based stroker) and add a blower. The S197 tubular k-member only needs minor modification for the motor mounts, and there's enough room for LT headers.
Just add a Powerglide tranny, custom driveshaft, Ford 9" rear axle, suspension, tires, and let it rip. Most of the parts are readily available and fairly inexpensive, so you don't have to break the bank to run 8s. A 3300lb race weight and 800rwhp will get you there. Wanna run 7's? Just add another 350rwhp.

 

[JJ427R]

We've had a couple discussions here on the S197 forum regarding Matrix Braces/Subframe Connectors and if they do anything or not??? A couple of us have em installed and we've noticed considerable more stiffness in our cars. I noticed a huge difference in cornering on a Road Track. Others that have never even installed them say the S197 is stiff enough and needs no additional bracing and say we are just adding weight to our cars.

I'm wondering if BMR has any test data to show what difference a Matrix Brace/Subframe Connectors actually make? I noticed in your build you actually connected yours into the roll cage. I don't have a cage but am curious to know more???

Here is what you stated:
A modified set of BMR boxed subframe connectors are mocked up on the car so we can begin planning the roll cage design. Once in position, a rear crossmember was made from chromoly and tacked into place near the rear of the subframe connectors. This bar is important since it becomes a common link for the main hoop and lower vertical cage supports. It also ties the inner and outer frame rails together at a point directly in front of the control arm mounting points.

 

[01yellerCobra]

We've had a couple discussions here on the S197 forum regarding Matrix Braces/Subframe Connectors and if they do anything or not??? A couple of us have em installed and we've noticed considerable more stiffness in our cars. I noticed a huge difference in cornering on a Road Track. Others that have never even installed them say the S197 is stiff enough and needs no additional bracing and say we are just adding weight to our cars.

I'm wondering if BMR has any test data to show what difference a Matrix Brace/Subframe Connectors actually make? I noticed in your build you actually connected yours into the roll cage. I don't have a cage but am curious to know more???

Here is what you stated:
A modified set of BMR boxed subframe connectors are mocked up on the car so we can begin planning the roll cage design. Once in position, a rear crossmember was made from chromoly and tacked into place near the rear of the subframe connectors. This bar is important since it becomes a common link for the main hoop and lower vertical cage supports. It also ties the inner and outer frame rails together at a point directly in front of the control arm mounting points.

You just can't let it go can you? Given that the original post is from 2014 and they don't post here anymore I don't think you're going to get the answer you want.

 

[JJ427R]

You just can't let it go can you? Given that the original post is from 2014 and they don't post here anymore I don't think you're going to get the answer you want.

I have my opinion of these just as you do. I'm still looking to get some confirmed data somewhere, either good or bad, and there has to be something out there.... and yes I will continue searching as I'm not a quitter.

We still have not had anyone on here who has installed them say they don't work. We had others who have installed them respond and said similar to what myself and Pentalab have said, but nobody believes what we are saying and give responses like "it's placebo effect". I take that very personally as I know what I feel in my car and I know for fact my lap times decreased, and for someone to come on here and tell me and others that's not what we're really feeling is quite insulting.

Norm ran my lap time data and posted on the other thread, and even he was surprised by what he saw in the graph and the quick decrease in my lap times after I installed these. Was it just me improving that much at one time, even after 6-7 years on track in the same car? I would like to say yes, but I also know the change in my car after these were installed, and I'm still saying it's more in the latter.

Just as you don't like or believe my opinion, I don't like the opinion of those who have not tried them and are just assuming, guess that is the good and bad of forums like this.

 

[01yellerCobra]

I have my opinion of these just as you do. I'm still looking to get some confirmed data somewhere, either good or bad, and there has to be something out there.... and yes I will continue searching as I'm not a quitter.

We still have not had anyone on here who has installed them say they don't work. We had others who have installed them respond and said similar to what myself and Pentalab have said, but nobody believes what we are saying and give responses like "it's placebo effect". I take that very personally as I know what I feel in my car and I know for fact my lap times decreased, and for someone to come on here and tell me and others that's not what we're really feeling is quite insulting.

Norm ran my lap time data and posted on the other thread, and even he was surprised by what he saw in the graph and the quick decrease in my lap times after I installed these. Was it just me improving that much at one time, even after 6-7 years on track in the same car? I would like to say yes, but I also know the change in my car after these were installed, and I'm still saying it's more in the latter.

Just as you don't like or believe my opinion, I don't like the opinion of those who have not tried them and are just assuming, guess that is the good and bad of forums like this.

Never said I don't believe you. I've only read partially through the thread where you're all beating a dead horse. I haven't commented either way as I don't have that particular part and I don't autocross. I'd just say it's time to agree to disagree and move on.

I was also pointing out that the thread was made in 2014 and BMR doesn't post on here anymore. So don't plan on an answer any times soon.

 

[Pentalab]

Never said I don't believe you. I've only read partially through the thread where you're all beating a dead horse. I haven't commented either way as I don't have that particular part and I don't autocross. I'd just say it's time to agree to disagree and move on.

I was also pointing out that the thread was made in 2014 and BMR doesn't post on here anymore. So don't plan on an answer any times soon.

jj427r doesn't autocross. He's on a road course...with speeds up to 140 mph.

If you have not installed that part, how do know it doesn't work ?

 

[01yellerCobra]

jj427r doesn't autocross. He's on a road course...with speeds up to 140 mph.

If you have not installed that part, how do know it doesn't work ?

Man. You guys can't read can you? As mentioned I never said I don't believe jj427r. I never said the part does or doesn't work. I never took part in that conversation. My point was him coming into a 5 year old thread made by a company that no longer posts here. It's highly unlikely he's going to get a response.

But you guys keep looking at other threads in hopes others will agree with you.

 

[Pentalab]

Man. You guys can't read can you? As mentioned I never said I don't believe jj427r. I never said the part does or doesn't work. I never took part in that conversation. My point was him coming into a 5 year old thread made by a company that no longer posts here. It's highly unlikely he's going to get a response.

But you guys keep looking at other threads in hopes others will agree with you.

Points well taken. I could care less whether somebody agrees or not. Any idiot can feel the difference when the BMR sfc's are welded into place.... the difference is readily apparent.

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

In a dedicated drag car, you're not concerned about everyday drivability and emissions so you can stick the biggest capacity Ford pushrod engine that'll fit in the S197 engine bay (e.g. 460 Big Block based stroker) and add a blower. The S197 tubular k-member only needs minor modification for the motor mounts, and there's enough room for LT headers.
Just add a Powerglide tranny, custom driveshaft, Ford 9" rear axle, suspension, tires, and let it rip. Most of the parts are readily available and fairly inexpensive, so you don't have to break the bank to run 8s. A 3300lb race weight and 800rwhp will get you there. Wanna run 7's? Just add another 350rwhp.

I can totally relate to why someone back then put a pushrod Ford engine into an s197. ( cost vs. power reward)
I still remember seeing Jon Kaase's Boss 429 based 2008 GT at his shop in GA.
He was the first person that I recall doing the BBF swap ( around 08 or 09 )

With that said, we are now seeing a turning point in the s197 car's life.
The cars are cheap to buy, plentiful, and easily accept pushrod engines.
So there are more guys buying up 4.0 or 4.6 cars and swapping a cheap to fix, cheaper to gain h.p. pushrod engine into them.

To make 500 fwhp from a N/A 4.6 based engine, how much would it cost ?
To make 500 hp from a 408W engine, I would imagine the cost is a lot cheaper plus EFI can easily be used if desired.

Plus, the stock 05-10 GT TR3650 manual trans can easily be adapted to a 302/351W engine with a Hanlon Motorsports adaptor plate and it leaves the stock 5 speed in the stock location.

 

[Juice]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m6007z2363rt
I think I would rather go with an Aluminator crate for that kind of money.

 

[83-88T-Bird Guy]

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m6007z2363rt
I think I would rather go with an Aluminator crate for that kind of money.

for $ 400 more I would go with the 460 cu. in. small block...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Racin...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[Juice]

Nice, but for me, it's RIP pushrod tech. I've gone modular. I will likely do another coyote swap into something else, just not sure what that is yet... lol