Auto or Manual for 2013 gt?

[Norm Peterson]

For me being an ex-SCCA racer, limits had nothing to do with anything except money. I had a drag car and wanted to experience road racing before I met my maker, and I didn't want to spend $30/40k for a high HP car, so I choose to spend $12k for a National Winner Spec Miata, or in SCCA racing we call it a "momentum" car. Personally I think this type of car teaches you how to really drive, rather than relying on HP to get you out of trouble. Obviously you haven't done much drag racing, because it's not about raw power, but having the car setup to make 1.30 60' times and take a 3200 pound car with 650hp motor at the crank and turn 9.80's in the 1/4 and 6 teens in the 1/8.
I just don't get having 1000hp on the street, to me it's just crazy, or maybe because I'm in my mid 70's I'm just being a little more realistic. My 19 Mustang will turn high 11's at over 115, just the way it came off the showroom floor.

I agree, 1000 on the street is crazy - just on the basis of making WOT a waste in too many gears, and today's OEM 700's aren't far behind. 1st you can reasonably assume to be a throw-away gear (or darn close to it) in street driving, but to have traction issues in 3rd or higher on dry pavement . . . other than for showing off, what's the use? I'm still thinking that your SCCA time had something to do with this.

You're right, I've done very little drag racing, legally or otherwise (even though I'm partway around the sun for the 73rd time). I've just always been more intrigued by making cars go around corners than racing in straight lines, this going back to even before I started to drive a car. Dunno, either that's made me more of a 'momentum driver', or I've always been that kind of driver and that's why the cornering side of the motoring sport has appealed to me more.

I've never owned a car with more than about 375 at the crank, and most of them had less than about 2/3 of that much. So to me, 650 at the crank already is big power. I do realize that driving skill and chassis tuning is involved. But I'm pretty sure you still need 650-ish power if you're looking to put a 3200 lb car into the low 11's at low 130's with a 150 lb driver.


Norm

 

[OX1]

Build the car your way and spend ludicrous amount of money

Not sure what you consider ludicrous, but I'm all in for what is in my sig, including buying car new for a bit over $35K. Helps if you waited until the 15's just came out, and they couldn't give away a 14. Got mine with auto as only option for $26.7K. Some obscure web site had a crazy price for the Phs 3 Roush, Summit matched it for $6K.

Chinese knockoff bullets for $600.
Two new 295 NT05's from E-bay for $480.
Two new 255 NT555's $320
Roush lower arms $200
Roush upper arm $160
UPR catch can $170
whiteline sway bars $409
steeda rad support-$200
lightweight batt-$115
homemade rear seat delete-$10
lightweight front bumper support-$175
Roush used upper airbox cover/mass air tube-$55

Weigh in @ 3590 with no spare/jack.

And it's not "ruined" no squeekie or harsh bushings, stock
quiet exh, emission legal (passes visual and OBD II test anyway),
woman can drive it anywhere (she don't drive stick), rides nice
with stock springs and 18's without super low profile tires.

And you don't get the rush of that torque from 30-90 from
even a new stock 5.0/10 spd. I do think for street HP, even what I have,
is maybe close or a hair over what is truly streetable. But at this level,
it's still usable and most important, pretty bulletproof.

 

[Olerodder]

I agree, 1000 on the street is crazy - just on the basis of making WOT a waste in too many gears, and today's OEM 700's aren't far behind. 1st you can reasonably assume to be a throw-away gear (or darn close to it) in street driving, but to have traction issues in 3rd or higher on dry pavement . . . other than for showing off, what's the use? I'm still thinking that your SCCA time had something to do with this.

You're right, I've done very little drag racing, legally or otherwise (even though I'm partway around the sun for the 73rd time). I've just always been more intrigued by making cars go around corners than racing in straight lines, this going back to even before I started to drive a car. Dunno, either that's made me more of a 'momentum driver', or I've always been that kind of driver and that's why the cornering side of the motoring sport has appealed to me more.

I've never owned a car with more than about 375 at the crank, and most of them had less than about 2/3 of that much. So to me, 650 at the crank already is big power. I do realize that driving skill and chassis tuning is involved. But I'm pretty sure you still need 650-ish power if you're looking to put a 3200 lb car into the low 11's at low 130's with a 150 lb driver.


Norm

 

[Olerodder]

My Spec Miata had 130hp, and of course was built from 10 other motors to get everthing as close as possible.
My 70 Maverick was 3200 without me, and I weigh 210. The motor was 650hp @ 6800 and 545lbft at 5700, left the line at 5000 and went through the lights at 6800. Car ran 9.801 @ 136. If you try and use a computer, the computer will tell you it can't be done with only 650hp...computers don't use AI yet, and are not real world as many people believe, at least IMHO

 

[Olerodder]

Not sure what you consider ludicrous, but I'm all in for what is in my sig, including buying car new for a bit over $35K. Helps if you waited until the 15's just came out, and they couldn't give away a 14. Got mine with auto as only option for $26.7K. Some obscure web site had a crazy price for the Phs 3 Roush, Summit matched it for $6K.

Chinese knockoff bullets for $600.
Two new 295 NT05's from E-bay for $480.
Two new 255 NT555's $320
Roush lower arms $200
Roush upper arm $160
UPR catch can $170
whiteline sway bars $409
steeda rad support-$200
lightweight batt-$115
homemade rear seat delete-$10
lightweight front bumper support-$175
Roush used upper airbox cover/mass air tube-$55

Weigh in @ 3590 with no spare/jack.

And it's not "ruined" no squeekie or harsh bushings, stock
quiet exh, emission legal (passes visual and OBD II test anyway),
woman can drive it anywhere (she don't drive stick), rides nice
with stock springs and 18's without super low profile tires.

And you don't get the rush of that torque from 30-90 from
even a new stock 5.0/10 spd. I do think for street HP, even what I have,
is maybe close or a hair over what is truly streetable. But at this level,
it's still usable and most important, pretty bulletproof.

 

[Olerodder]

Ludicrous is spending as much on the motor as you've spent on you entire car, in the quest of making 1000/1500 HP. My 19 GT has done 11.90's at 115/117 bone stock. The acceleration from 30/40 to 130 is pretty dramatic compared to my 14 TrakPak as the A10 keeps the motor in the power/torque band in every gear...besides, I'm in my mid 70's, so I'm just an old guy who would rather put the right pedal to metal and not use my left foot.

 

[Juice]

Hate automatics under certain conditions.
A sports car needs a manual. I dont care if an auto IS faster by a few miliseconds because I have more fun going slower shifting. My 91 fox is faster than a spec miata at watkins glen, and the miata was driven by someone who actually races them.
My s197 is faster than my 91, and burns less fuel doing it. i bet the miata uses even less fuel. A low power momemntum car is definitely easier on the wallet. But.....
I DONT CARE. I need my big and heavy v8 power and manual transmission. The only reasons I have not stepped up to 600+ rwhp is I want the 100% stock reliability and not lose tracktime due to a ventilated bottom end.
I ride a 9 second bike on the street and love the power. Having redicous hp for a steet car is awesome. Totally useless but fucking awesome!
Because Overkill is "just right".

 

[Norm Peterson]

My Spec Miata had 130hp, and of course was built from 10 other motors to get everthing as close as possible.
My 70 Maverick was 3200 without me, and I weigh 210. The motor was 650hp @ 6800 and 545lbft at 5700, left the line at 5000 and went through the lights at 6800. Car ran 9.801 @ 136. If you try and use a computer, the computer will tell you it can't be done with only 650hp...computers don't use AI yet, and are not real world as many people believe, at least IMHO

The quickie quarter mile calculator I found on a brief search was no different from any of the other HP/Weight ET & MPH formulas I've seen over the years. They're all better at predicting mph than ET, so I'll take a low 130's estimate against 136 actual as being close enough.

Wonder what my own spreadsheet acceleration sim would find . . .


Norm

 

[Olerodder]

I have to say that I loved my 14 TrakPak, and was mostly stock except for a tune. I drove a 15 when they first came out and liked them although there wasn't any difference in power. With 460 and the A10 it's a decent canyon carver and pretty wicked for a stock off the show room floor car. Maybe I should put in the X pipe and deep six the resonator, then get the GT350 intake and a tune and try for 500...then again maybe not. Got to love the newer Mustangs...6spd or A10. I'm going on a 1300 mile road trip soon, then we'll see it it matches the Mini Cooper.

 

[JJ427R]

Owing a 2018 GT PP1 I personally don't care much for the new 10 speed, to much shifting going on all the time. They are not good on track either, they overheat way too quickly(as well as the engine). In track mode if you try to let it shift itself, it will struggle to find the proper gear. The engine overheating is another issue. I put mine into limp mode in 12 minutes on track at Road America and I was not even pushing it that hard. Video below I was running in track mode and trying to let it shift itself. Listen to how it struggles to find a gear only after a couple minutes. I was not using the paddles as I drive with hand controls and this was my first time on track with this car. My 2010 Roush with the M90 blower and 5r55 auto has never overheated that quickly, I usually get a couple sessions in before that starts getting hot, then the trans will start shifting itself into overdrive. But no limp mode on that car so it doesn't shut down on track, which to me is a very dangerous thing to have happen.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

I'm planning on buying a 13-14 gt and making it my main weekend cruise/speed boi. I know that the manual trans can be delicate and since I'm gonna buy a used gt with low miles I know manuals will be beat on more than autos. But I wanted to know what transmission is generally better for adding power reliably. Things that I'm considering is reliability, the cost to upgrade, how much power can it safely take before needing an upgrade, and the cost of repair if anything happens. I'm not considering the fun factor cuz I know the manuals are more fun.

Now, if the s197 had the manual transmission of the s550 there would be no debate. Sadly, the only way for that to happen is swapping transmissions.

OP's question was about the 13-14 manual vs auto, nothing else.

 

[OX1]

Ludicrous is spending as much on the motor as you've spent on you entire car, in the quest of making 1000/1500 HP. My 19 GT has done 11.90's at 115/117 bone stock. The acceleration from 30/40 to 130 is pretty dramatic compared to my 14 TrakPak as the A10 keeps the motor in the power/torque band in every gear...besides, I'm in my mid 70's, so I'm just an old guy who would rather put the right pedal to metal and not use my left foot.

That package looks like a pretty sweet deal @ high 30's, if you keep from loading it up.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=511796948&zip=08527&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=08527&startYear=2019&incremental=all&modelCodeList=MUST&makeCodeList=FORD&transmissionCodes=AUT&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&engineCodes=8CLDR&firstRecord=475&marketExtension=include&searchRadius=0&isNewSearch=false&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2019&numRecords=25&firstRecord=475&modelCodeList=MUST&makeCodeList=FORD&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=MUST&digitalRetail=true&clickType=listing

I'm sure susp-wise, it is far superior. but you still have the styling issue. I'm no 550 hater,
but there is a reason I snatched up one of the last S197's. The only thing that might get me
out of it, is if some AWD mustang version comes out. Would love to make a mustang my
year round DD (my Fusion Sport probably 60's a 1.9 even in the rain).

 

[WNYGT5-0]

Owing a 2018 GT PP1 I personally don't care much for the new 10 speed, to much shifting going on all the time. They are not good on track either, they overheat way too quickly(as well as the engine). In track mode if you try to let it shift itself, it will struggle to find the proper gear. The engine overheating is another issue. I put mine into limp mode in 12 minutes on track at Road America and I was not even pushing it that hard. Video below I was running in track mode and trying to let it shift itself. Listen to how it struggles to find a gear only after a couple minutes. I was not using the paddles as I drive with hand controls and this was my first time on track with this car. My 2010 Roush with the M90 blower and 5r55 auto has never overheated that quickly, I usually get a couple sessions in before that starts getting hot, then the trans will start shifting itself into overdrive. But no limp mode on that car so it doesn't shut down on track, which to me is a very dangerous thing to have happen.

Put some pipes on that thing for Pete’s sake...

 

[JJ427R]

Put some pipes on that thing for Pete’s sake...

It has the active exhaust, I'm actually looking at selling/trading it. If I kept it cooling would have to be the first items to change.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Here's the best information I have to date for the S550's active exhaust. From somewhat different numbers elsewhere (in the 100 - 115 dB range) I'm thinking that 'Sport' would be about 85 dB.

My guess is that the dB levels were set to conform with drive-by noise requirements for street duty and with plenty of margin to avoid customers getting booted off tracks with enforced and restrictive sound limits (Laguna Seca and Lime Rock that I know of). Not to suit the loudness preferences of individual owners.


https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/active-exhaust-modes

Mustang GT on Track Setting 86 Decibels
Mustang GT on Normal Setting 82 Decibels
Mustang GT on Quiet Setting 72 Decibels

I suspect that those numbers were taken from 50 feet off to the side of the direction of travel of the car being measured for sound (it's a fairly commonly used distance). Haven't gotten any verification yet, though.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

It has the active exhaust, I'm actually looking at selling/trading it. If I kept it cooling would have to be the first items to change.

A real bummer for sure, but yeah, the S550 in general and your car in particular have far more important things to be addressed for track duty than the exhaust system. Starting with providing adequate cooling of the differential and the transmission.


Norm

 

[Olerodder]

Here's the best information I have to date for the S550's active exhaust. From somewhat different numbers elsewhere (in the 100 - 115 dB range) I'm thinking that 'Sport' would be about 85 dB.

My guess is that the dB levels were set to conform with drive-by noise requirements for street duty and with plenty of margin to avoid customers getting booted off tracks with enforced and restrictive sound limits (Laguna Seca and Lime Rock that I know of). Not to suit the loudness preferences of individual owners.


https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/active-exhaust-modes

Mustang GT on Track Setting 86 Decibels
Mustang GT on Normal Setting 82 Decibels
Mustang GT on Quiet Setting 72 Decibels

I suspect that those numbers were taken from 50 feet off to the side of the direction of travel of the car being measured for sound (it's a fairly commonly used distance). Haven't gotten any verification yet, though.


Norm

 

[Olerodder]

Having held my Sound Tech license with the SCCA, there are a lot of tricks someone can do to fool the sound meter, having also held a Tech Inspectors license with the SCCA, I can attest to that...if we didn't catch them, they'd get away with it. Most upper class guys at Laguna Seca run race mufflers to get at or under 90db, and some use tricks!

 

[Pentalab]

A real bummer for sure, but yeah, the S550 in general and your car in particular have far more important things to be addressed for track duty than the exhaust system. Starting with providing adequate cooling of the differential and the transmission.


Norm

+ eng cooling..... + eng oil cooling.

 

[LDC2335]

I've seen the MT-82's take boost up to 700hp. It all about the driver and the setup. If your running a ceramic clutch and drag radials, your trans is going to be the weak point. If you are running organic and street tires, your traction should give out before long before the trans does.

All that being said, manual is more fun to drive. Auto is "faster" and can handle more power as-is. I daily drive the six-speed.No regrets.