I sure wish "Pentalab" (whoever he is) would actually go out and learn something before he chimes in with his brand of 'tech'. It gets old having to bust his chops, time and again, because I am now the bad guy. But it has to be done or this forum will be just like so many others.
My issue is when he tries to post "engineering tech" with no real first-hand knowledge about the topics in question. 45 seconds og google searching does not make you the expert. Let's not get bogged down in links to forums with mostly outrage over powder coating finish blemishes and equate that with wheel failures.
I'm really
not trying to pick on "Pentalab", he just has a history here of posting nonsense wrapped in 'engineering speak'. Somebody has to counter his posts with real tech or the knowledge level of the whole forum is brought down. I'm sure he probably means well, but posts without
real knowledge do more harm than good.
Apparently the blanks (using some unknown alloy) are cast overseas...then shipped to Forgestar, for their...'rotary forging process'. So they end up being better than cast, but are not real forged wheels, but then the price also reflects that.
You can lead a horse to water... I already posted links to all this but 'lets do it again'.
Nobody ever claimed these were "real forged wheels", but instead made with rotary forging technology. This isn't just a cast wheel like 90% of the aftermarket uses.
http://www.forgestar.com/wheels/about/
...Forgestar Performance Wheels has bridged the gap between forged wheels and cast wheels. Forgestar Performance Wheels is proud to introduce the world’s first one piece lightweight rotary forged custom flow formed wheel lineup.
Rotary Forged Flow Forming is a production procedure that turns the wheel (or rim section) over a special mandrel and three hydraulic rollers using tremendous pressure. The pressure and turning then force the rim area to form against the mandrel, creating the shape and width of the rim. During Flow Forming, the rim actually “flows” down to create the full rim width. The pressure applied to the cast rim actually changes its mechanical properties, so its strength and impact values become similar to those of a forged rim. That translates to up to 15% less weight when compared to a standard cast wheel. Our technological breakthroughs in heat treating allow us to increase dent resistance without having to make the wheel heavier.
Forgestar ... allows the customers to choose between a range of offsets for every wheel width that is offered. The end consumer is able to choose a wheel that will perfectly fit their own individual vehicle. All Forgestar Performance Wheels are compatible with tire pressure sensor monitors and allow clearance for most high performance brake caliper upgrades.
CERTIFIED BY: SAE JWL VIA
This process all happens in the same foundry that casts the original wheel blank. The blank is heated, then rotary forged, then machined for most of the final shape.
THAT is the "blank" that Forgestar brings in - its already rotary forged. Several other wheel companies use this process and it works best for 1-piece wheels that are not CNC machined from a forged blank - a better process, but one that triples the price.
The machines needed to do this are large and expensive, and as far as I know that is not a SINGLE wheel maker in the USA who can do this process. Back in 2007 when we started working with D-Force there were only 3 factories in the world that could make rotary forged wheels and blanks. There may be a few more now, but not any in the United States that I know of.
Wanna know another "dirty little secret"? Most forged wheel blanks are also not made in the USA. Most forged wheel companies source their blanks from an overseas factory that has the massive, heavy and expensive tooling to really forge blanks this large.
Go to any automotive industry trade show and walk around with your eyes open. Most wheel makers all moved "overseas" ages ago (there are a few hold-outs in Japan, Europe, and USA). Just the reality. At these shows you will see examples of all manner of wheel brands that are made in the same factory in China. It just is what it is I'm not going to get into the Geo-political arguments for or against this shift - it already happened and there's not much we can do about it.
Jason and I go to all of these trade shows and talk to the owners and key folks at all of the big wheel companies. I respect the hell out of the US manufacturers still making wheels here, but they are dwindling and I can number real companies on one hand. Even some of these are sourcing forged blanks and rotary forged blanks from "overseas", then doing their final machining here (and not even always that).
Forgestar took their own wheel designs, worked with one of the handful of rotary forge foundries overseas, invested in their own designs and huge number of wheel sizes, and brought them to the USA to be final machined to custom specs in their facility, and powder coated locally. And they tested the heck out of them, to get real certifications. Nobody else has figured out this trick - bring in the semi-finished blank to be final machined to spec here. So many others all want to just import a 100% finished, machined, and powder coated wheel to a handful of sizes.
But if there are other "armchair engineers" like "Pentalab" that think they can do better - rock on. Go to SEMA, waltz into the wheel and tire hall, and strike up a conversation. You too can be a wheel importer/custom wheel maker - just bring a truckload of cash, invest in your own factory here to final machine and powder coat, and SHOW EVERYONE HOW TO DO IT BETTER.
More tech...
http://www.forgestar.com/wheels/technology/ <- Pentalab, please click here and read
Forgestar’s Rotary Forged Flow forming process is a unique solution to a common problem – how to make a wheel both light and strong.
This specialized process begins with a low pressure type of casting and uses a special machine that spins the initial casting, heats the outer portion of the casting and then uses steel rollers pressed against the rim area to pull the rim to its final width and shape. The combination of the heat, pressure and spinning create a rim area with the strength similar to a forged wheel. During Flow Forming, the pressure applied to the cast rim actually changes its mechanical properties, so its strength and impact values become similar to those of a forged rim. That translates to up to 15% less weight when compared to a standard cast wheel. The resulting grain structure within the alloy of the wheel is linear, flowing in a single direction.
This grain structure pattern, combined with the exceptional quality of casting required for the process, gives the rim area of the wheel huge mechanical strength, and elongation. As a result of these mechanical characteristics, Forgestar is able to reduce the thickness of the rim area resulting in reduced weight, without compromising strength and resistance to impact
Again, there are others making rotary forged wheels (names that everyone knows) just nobody in the USA is making them here.
Feel free to build your own casting foundry and invest in the engineering staff and machines to do rotary forging here, too. Seriously, I'd love to see a USA made rotary forging. If you can do it within 20% of Forgestar's prices, sign me up as a customer.
Hugs and kisses,
This is not some "pretend" persona, this is just me - like it or hate it. I'm also not insecure - I just don't care if people like me. Sure, I'd probably win more favor with cowering flower "I need a safe space" type of customers with a fake super friendly persona online. But that wouldn't be honest. That's just not me. I am a bit of an asshole. And my skin is thick.
