S550 4 Pistons on S197 Car

ghunt81 said:

Can't say with any certainty but I would think anything that clears the Brembos would most likely clear the S550 calipers.

Click to expand...

Not really ... as discussed in this thread, the hat is deeper on the S550 rotors, meaning the S550 calipers don't overhang as much as compared to when they are installed over S197 rotors. When I mocked this up last year and posted in the thread, the Steeda 18x9.5" I had which cleared the S197 Brembos needed a spacer to clear the S550 calipers. So the S550 calipers are actually bulkier and wider than the S197 Brembos.


cheers
Ed

I know the S550 calipers are bigger. With the spacers required I measured exactly 2" off the rotor hub face on the S550's, vs. 1 3/4" or less on the Brembos. Maybe wheels that fit the Brembos don't have quite that much room.

ghunt81 said:

S197 brake lines will bolt up to the S550 calipers but you'd have to majorly bend/modify the hardlines to make them actually work.

Click to expand...

They won't without some modification. I had to grind a notch in the connector block on teh caliper endand bend the tubing on the S197 lines to make them work. Mentioned in my post http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2309875&postcount=126

4th picture down in this post shows the issue.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2245198&postcount=116

ghunt81 said:

The S197 Brembos use the same line as the GT's 2 piston calipers and pretty much mount the same way. The banjo bolt fitting points down just like the fitting is on the 2 piston calipers.

I did have to bend the hardline on mine just a touch to get the little bracket on the flex hose that bolts to the strut to line up correctly, but that could just as well be an issue with the replacement lines I got because the bracket didn't look like it was bent at the same angle as the ones on my OEM lines.

Click to expand...

OK, think you did say that in our PM's, just was not sure if you
used GT500 lines or GT lines. Looking at pics on rockauto, there
is a slight difference in the bend coming off caliper end of line
of GT line vs S197 brembo line. Glad that is one thing I can make
work without having to buy new lines (or worry about frame end
fitting).

I'd like to hear from those that went from the twin piston GT
calipers to the S550's on pedal travel. Would be hard to believe
travel didn't increase when you double the total caliper piston area.

I looked up PN's and S550 uses different booster and MC
vs my 14. Could be just fitment issues due to whole new chassis,
but I'd guess they increased MC size slightly.

OX1 said:

OK, think you did say that in our PM's, just was not sure if you
used GT500 lines or GT lines. Looking at pics on rockauto, there
is a slight difference in the bend coming off caliper end of line
of GT line vs S197 brembo line. Glad that is one thing I can make
work without having to buy new lines (or worry about frame end
fitting).

Click to expand...

Hm, when I was on rockauto I cross-checked part numbers and they have the same part numbers for the brake lines for the GT and GT500.

Also I have definitely noticed more pedal travel on my car with the Brembos but I expected that.

ghunt81 said:

I know the S550 calipers are bigger. With the spacers required I measured exactly 2" off the rotor hub face on the S550's, vs. 1 3/4" or less on the Brembos. Maybe wheels that fit the Brembos don't have quite that much room.

Click to expand...

Yes, what I meant to say was that just because a wheel fits over Brembos, it doesn't mean that they will clear S550 brakes. So from your measurements, anyone that has existing wheels over Brembos will need an additional 1/4" of clearance to go over these.

ghunt81 said:

Hm, when I was on rockauto I cross-checked part numbers and they have the same part numbers for the brake lines for the GT and GT500.

Also I have definitely noticed more pedal travel on my car with the Brembos but I expected that.

Click to expand...

From Rock auto 2014 GT brake hose category

MOTORCRAFT BRHF123 {#CR3Z2078C}
Front Left; Race Package (Only 1 Remaining)

I assume "race package" means brembos?

MOTORCRAFT BRHF119 {#BR3Z2078C}
Front Left; w/o Special Equipment Package

and I assume that means with stock GT twin piston??

-------------------------------------------------------

Dorman also lists for GT

DORMAN H620560 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Info
Front Left

and under GT500 lists

DORMAN H622051 {#DR3Z2078B} Info
Front Left

Looks like GT hard line comes in @ corner (see my pic
in post 213) but GT500 hard line comes in at center edge
of the "square" that banjo bolt goes through.

Anyway, you got yours to work so that means
mine should, I hope.

Nope I had Shelbyville razors that cleared gt500 but not s550. To use S550 calipers you need about 1/4 to 1/2 more space that gt500 calipers

I looked at the 2007 GT500 vs. 2007 GT though.

Example, the motorcraft BHRF32 and BHRF109 is listed for both.

So the newer (11-14 I assume) cars do have different part numbers for the front hoses, even for the base model brakes. Weird.

ghunt81 said:

I looked at the 2007 GT500 vs. 2007 GT though.

Example, the motorcraft BHRF32 and BHRF109 is listed for both.

So the newer (11-14 I assume) cars do have different part numbers for the front hoses, even for the base model brakes. Weird.

Click to expand...

This is the pic I was looking for.
Appears my stock GT line should work.




I didn't realize 14 GT500 had 6 pistons,
so yeah that line probably wouldn't work.

Oh I thought you were looking at the 2014 Brembo GT, not the GT500. Yeah that makes sense.

Not real happy to hear about pedal travel.
My stock brakes already do nothing for the first 1/4
of pedal travel. Two dealers claim it is normal (feels
like brakes need to be bled).

Anyway, appears V6 through GT500 used same master,
which seems odd with an increase of about 80% in
caliper piston area between stock and brembo.

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-2140Q/mustang-master-cylinder-power-brakes-0914

But the upgraded brakes did get a different booster,
might have to look into that one.

https://lmr.com/item/LRS-2005AB/Mustang-GT500-Power-Brake-Booster-07-13

I thought pedal feel depended more on brake line material/fluid than master cylinder size?

46addict said:

I thought pedal feel depended more on brake line material/fluid than master cylinder size?

Click to expand...

Brake line expansion has a little bit to do with it, but it's pretty much just basic hydraulics. If you have, say, a 1" master cylinder piston moving two 40mm caliper pistons, the master cylinder has to move a "x" amount of fluid to get "y" amount of travel out of the caliper pistons. But if you make that caliper have four 40mm pistons, the master cylinder has to move twice as much fluid to get the same "y" amount of movement.

Brake fluid, I'm not sure how much of an effect it has. Brake fluid absorbs water so I suppose really old brake fluid could cause a small loss of pedal feel and/or cause some issues due to the absorbed water. I don't think it would be anything major though.

does anyone know the thickness of the washer needed for the front calipers ? a link to a washer on homedepot or advancedautoparts etc would be helpful.

Thanks

also anyone with AMR 19x8.5 wheels did this install? do you need a spacer, if so what thickness?

wheels in question

https://www.americanmuscle.com/black-amr-wheels-1013.html

munchy said:

does anyone know the thickness of the washer needed for the front calipers ? a link to a washer on homedepot or advancedautoparts etc would be helpful.

Thanks

Click to expand...

About 1/16" thick. Everything I used to mount are listed in this post.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/s550-4-pistons-on-s197-car.122557/page-7#post-2309875

nawagner said:

About 1/16" thick. Everything I used to mount are listed in this post.

http://www.s197forum.com/threads/s550-4-pistons-on-s197-car.122557/page-7#post-2309875

Click to expand...

do you by any chance know where you got the washer from, I have been searching for it on homedepots website but cant seem to find one with those specs.

Also, i read on a facebook post that peeps needed 3-5mm spacers for the hub to clear the brakes.

I plan to do the install weekend of 30th March, and I have below parts:-

s550 calipers
centric 14 inch rotors for 07-12 gt500
s550 brake pads
stopttech stainless steel braided brake lines

only thing missing is the washer, dont want to get something too thick and then put everything back together and find the correct washer.

also, not sure if I will need a spacer or not.


When the stang is your only ride you have to plan everything when doing a DIY, else it's painful to put it back and go to the auto store.

Pretty sure i got them at Ace Hardware. Any hardware store that has a large assortment of hardware in the plastic bins should have them. Home Depot may not list them on their website but might have them in their bins.

nawagner said:

Pretty sure i got them at Ace Hardware. Any hardware store that has a large assortment of hardware in the plastic bins should have them. Home Depot may not list them on their website but might have them in their bins.

Click to expand...

ok. i will try my luck. 1/16 would be roughly around 1.6mm right?