Current hp level- is it safe

Someguy

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Guys, I’m new to the forum but had been reading and researching about 05-09s recently.

So I’ve just bought a 06 GT supercharged. Car is a good deal, 120k miles, lots of things done to it, and have yet to find anything bad or broken. The engine has:

- supposedly forged internals shortblock put in at 90k miles;
- Vortech V3 supercharger system with intercooler, KB boost a pump(professionally installed at 49k miles, have receipt);
- Ford racing Intake manifold, BBK TB, MSD coil packs, Injectors, Gt500 fuel pump, (verified visually and had receipts from last 3 years);
-Supposedly Comp cam stage 2 ( no receipt to confirm)
- X pipe with high flow cats, SLP loudmouth axleback;
- maybe a few other small things I can’t recall at the moment;

Now to my question with the supposedly built short block.... The car dyno’ed at 520rwhp max a year ago (confirmed with the shop that did it). I’ve only seen paperwork of the engine swapped at around 90k miles about 4 years ago, but no proof of what went inside the engine. I think the consensus from research is that the stock engine can support 450rwhp max safely. So the worst case scenario is I have a stock engine at 120k miles. I’ve factored in this possibility when I decided to buy this car. But this car is such a blast to drive. Hard to pass it up.

Should I bring down the hp a bit to be safe?

To really look at the dyno chart.... the 520hp was made at 6700rpm, way past the factory redline. I have no desire to rev my engine up there unless I upgrade the heads and valvetrain. At 6000 rpm it makes almost 480hp, which is not far from 450hp.

The car is going to that shop that did the dyno for other work. I’m debating if I should maybe bring down the hp, or have them open up the oil pan to see if we can verify what’s inside. What’s you guys thought on this? Am I over thinking too much? This is just a weekend car, I don’t WOT every time I drive it, however my plan with this car is eventually get it ready for some occasional HPDE events or auto cross.
 

RocketcarX

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If you're really worried have the shop drop the oil pan (they don't have to remove it completely to have a peek) or use a borescope through the oil drain plug hole and look at the rods and underside of the pistons.
the stock valve train can easily handle 6800 RPM so I wouldn't limit the RPM below what it is now.
If it's built for real turn that sucker up more.
 

Balthazor72

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Sounds like you got a good base. If you plan on doing serious shows, why not throw in a crate engine? At least you'd know where your engine is at at that time. You can throw your extras on it and would probably be ahead on your hp.
 

sman247

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I like the idea of taking a peek through the oil pan at the rods. Those are the weak point on these engines. The crank has been known to handle well over 600rwhp. If it had aftermarket rods, it’s safe to assume the pistons are done as well. At that point I would turn up the boost. If it were stock rods at that mileage and power level they would’ve given out by now.
 

Someguy

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Well looks like the most logical and easiest thing to do first is to look through from the oil pan or oil drain hole to see what's inside. No sense to mess with dyno or the tune if it isn't yet deemed necessary. I'm trying to stay cautious, but yes I agree if it's been making this power for this many miles, the stock engine would have given up already. If this engine is indeed built then of course I have nothing to worry about. Maybe I'll even turn up the boost later on. But for the time being, I want to upgrade the suspension and brakes etc.. For sure if I ever need another engine later on, it will be done right.

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stkjock

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welcome and good luck with the car.

moved to Chat - tech is for actual wrenching and diagnostics, please review the posting rules
 

redfirepearlgt

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I made 507RW/465T on my stock internals on a 2005 3V. Not to say that was the best idea, as the local tuner found that additional power while retuning for drive-ability issues. (Yeah he's good). I was definitely pushing the limit according to the rule of thumb at that time. The car had 40K on it when I traded it and the next guy (second hand stories since I never saw it again) beat the daylights out of it and it was holding up fine.

You are running a Centri style which is a little bit easier on the engine torque wise than the twin screw PD setup I had. OTOH I wasn't redlining to 6800 RPM either. I shifted at 6200-6300 as I recall.

I love Rocket's idea of draining the pan and bore scoping up through the drain plug hole to see if the bottom end is built. If they took the time to put a forged crank and rods in the car chances are its also got upgraded pistons to boot.

For reference a friend of mine is running a forged 3v in his 06. It makes 750RWHP on E85 and 21psi boost from an air-air intercooled Procharger setup. Of course its on E85, cammed, l-tubed, and the whole works. Your more than fine if you can verify the bottom end and marginally okay IMHO if its stock. You could always pulley up and retune if you find the latter to be true if you are that concerned. Either way it's going to break a few hearts.
 

Someguy

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Nice to know of another example of stock engine that held up to 500hp for a long time without issues. And you are right I have a Centri blower that doesn't make as much torque. While the engine makes 520hp at the very top of rev range, it also only makes 410tq close to 6k. So since I don't plan to rev past 6k anyways this engine is not stressed as much as yours with PD blower.

Looks like I should be fine, whatever I find after peeking into the bottom of my engine. If it's just stock, I may have it tuned down a bit and maybe even address the little hestitation when engine is cold( I always go real easy when it's cold anyways). If it's built, maybe at some point I'll pulley for more boost.

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redfirepearlgt

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Torque is the real killer. The sources told me 460RWT was safe. At 410 with that centri I wouldn't touch a thing unless you find its forged and then I'd crank it up and consider putting it on E85.
 

Pentalab

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Is it possible to bore scope through the spark plug hole(s).... and look at the top of the piston(s) ? Is there a visible difference between the tops of the forged and non forged pistons ??
 

travelers

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Sure you can bore scope through the spark plug holes. But you won't be able to tell if its forged of not unless you can see a coating of some kind and able to identify who's pistons they are.
 

Someguy

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Car is getting dropped off to the shop tonight or tomorrow am. We've decided to look from the bottom. It's just not easy to tell from looking at the piston from the top

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Eedd

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Brenspeed rev limited my stock bottom end 3V to 6200rpm to save my engine when it dynoed just past 600hp at the crank. Which kept the torque at a flat 465 from 2000-6000rpm. I have almost 50,000 miles on it.
 

Pentalab

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Brenspeed rev limited my stock bottom end 3V to 6200rpm to save my engine when it dynoed just past 600hp at the crank. Which kept the torque at a flat 465 from 2000-6000rpm. I have almost 50,000 miles on it.

On a PD blower setup, stress on the rods goes up to the square of the RPM. Another reason you don't want to....'rev to the moon'. But you have a centri blower..and the boost goes up to the square of the rpm...vs the PD blower, which essentially has a flat boost vs rpm curve. Still, even with a centri, I would not rev to the sky. Set the rev limiter to 6250..and do your shifts at 6 k. Let the blower do all the work..in the next gear up.
 

stkjock

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Brenspeed rev limited my stock bottom end 3V to 6200rpm to save my engine when it dynoed just past 600hp at the crank. Which kept the torque at a flat 465 from 2000-6000rpm. I have almost 50,000 miles on it.
They put it on a engine dyno?
 

Someguy

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After doing the boroscope method, it was found that the rods just don't look like aftermarket, so our conclusion is to assume the internals are stock. To be safe a lower rev limiter is set and I'll shift at 6k.

My tuner pulled out all 3 dyno run files the last owner had from him. It actually looks like at 6k I have 470-480hp and 422tq. Giving up the rpm means I'm also giving up 40-50hp but probably won't risk blowing up the engine. The current setup (minus cams) had been on the car for 60-70k miles without issues. There's no reason to think it won't last another few years if I run it safe and take good care of it.
 
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Snakethat

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Did the seller not know if the internals were forged or not. I don't see how you couldn't know. Maybe the guy wanted the purchaser to feel better about it by saying it was forged. Either way its great you found out the truth
 

Someguy

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Did the seller not know if the internals were forged or not. I don't see how you couldn't know. Maybe the guy wanted the purchaser to feel better about it by saying it was forged. Either way its great you found out the truth
I didnt believe the seller about the engine internals from the beginning, and that's why I spent the effort to find out myself. Pretty much all other work done and mods are verifiable including the dyno (I went back to the tuner that did the 520hp dyno run to confirm). Would be silly for the seller to not have documentation for the engine if it were true. Plus I don't think the car's selling price reflect it anyways. So that's why I rather bring down the rev limiter so I won't exceed too much from what's considered safe hp for a stock engine.

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Do you by chance have any pics from the inspection?
I dont have the pics now, but I can contact the tuner to get copies. I took their words for it since they are a reputable mustang shop in the area. But maybe it's a good idea to let others see them as well to be sure.

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