Diagnosis needed

Dino Dino Bambino

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It's almost certainly cam phaser flop. Use a mechanic's stethoscope to localize the noise.
Couldn't help noticing that you have an Edelbrock E-Force supercharger.
 

Johnstone

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It's almost certainly cam phaser flop. Use a mechanic's stethoscope to localize the noise.
Couldn't help noticing that you have an Edelbrock E-Force supercharger.
Yea i have an eforce. Thank you for your input

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2526Bullitt

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Yeah definitely valvetrain related....how many miles and year of the vehicle? Has the timing or any timing components been removed recently? Any check engine lights?
 

Johnstone

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Yeah definitely valvetrain related....how many miles and year of the vehicle? Has the timing or any timing components been removed recently? Any check engine lights?
Car has only 25k miles on it. Besides the SC we installed nothing else has been done to it.
No check engine light on.

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702GT

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With the lack of CEL I find it hard to believe it could be valvetrain related, as far as timing components. Possible follower failure, though 6k/rpm is pretty mild for 3v components. Due to the quality of the video, I would say it sounds like a diesel. To that end, rod knock makes more sense. Specifically, spun bearing. Depending how much boost you're throwing at it, the stock springs will survive serious torment up to 6500rpm with boost. Same goes for valves/retainers/followers/adjusters. The stock phasers really don't like drag-launches, but handle street applied power through 600hp no sweat. Breaking a FoMoCo timing chain is epic power (or abuse).

From your description of chattering at the top of 6k/rpm run, could easily be a spun bearing. I would dump the oil immediately and see what comes out. Anything shiney is a new bottom end for you, and thorough inspection/cleaning of the block/heads. A chewed up follower could also drain shiney in the oil, but a dead follower is a dead hole usually, which will throw a CEL as a misfire/rich/lean condition.

My $.02 based on description, video makes me think you're hiding a diesel under there somewhere, drain the oil and get back to us.
 

07 Boss

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I had something like this that would happen randomly. I would usually just tap the gas and it would start running good again. It would go months without it happening. Finally one day it didnt fix itself and I threw a code for cam timing. It was strange that it wouldn’t throw a code before then but whatever. My car has about 100K on the odometer so I just bought a timing kit and replaced everything from phasers to tensioners. Hasn’t dieseled since.

Here is a link to what I found with the drivers side phaser. https://www.s197forum.com/threads/so-whats-wrong-with.134919/
 

Johnstone

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With the lack of CEL I find it hard to believe it could be valvetrain related, as far as timing components. Possible follower failure, though 6k/rpm is pretty mild for 3v components. Due to the quality of the video, I would say it sounds like a diesel. To that end, rod knock makes more sense. Specifically, spun bearing. Depending how much boost you're throwing at it, the stock springs will survive serious torment up to 6500rpm with boost. Same goes for valves/retainers/followers/adjusters. The stock phasers really don't like drag-launches, but handle street applied power through 600hp no sweat. Breaking a FoMoCo timing chain is epic power (or abuse).

From your description of chattering at the top of 6k/rpm run, could easily be a spun bearing. I would dump the oil immediately and see what comes out. Anything shiney is a new bottom end for you, and thorough inspection/cleaning of the block/heads. A chewed up follower could also drain shiney in the oil, but a dead follower is a dead hole usually, which will throw a CEL as a misfire/rich/lean condition.

My $.02 based on description, video makes me think you're hiding a diesel under there somewhere, drain the oil and get back to us.
Tomorrow its getting looked at... that video is right after i pulled over.

Boost 11.8

A/F always in 14 range

I didnt mention that there was a noticeable drop in power when I realized something was wrong.

I dont really abuse the car i went to the track a few times but never run it more the 3 times.

Also been having a problem with my AIT being to high.. pulling air at 178 degrees.
been working on the intercooler for a few weeks on and off I never push her hard when its hot out... i dont think its realted.

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I had something like this that would happen randomly. I would usually just tap the gas and it would start running good again. It would go months without it happening. Finally one day it didnt fix itself and I threw a code for cam timing. It was strange that it wouldn’t throw a code before then but whatever. My car has about 100K on the odometer so I just bought a timing kit and replaced everything from phasers to tensioners. Hasn’t dieseled since.

Here is a link to what I found with the drivers side phaser. https://www.s197forum.com/threads/so-whats-wrong-with.134919/
Thanks

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With the lack of CEL I find it hard to believe it could be valvetrain related, as far as timing components. Possible follower failure, though 6k/rpm is pretty mild for 3v components. Due to the quality of the video, I would say it sounds like a diesel. To that end, rod knock makes more sense. Specifically, spun bearing. Depending how much boost you're throwing at it, the stock springs will survive serious torment up to 6500rpm with boost. Same goes for valves/retainers/followers/adjusters. The stock phasers really don't like drag-launches, but handle street applied power through 600hp no sweat. Breaking a FoMoCo timing chain is epic power (or abuse).

From your description of chattering at the top of 6k/rpm run, could easily be a spun bearing. I would dump the oil immediately and see what comes out. Anything shiney is a new bottom end for you, and thorough inspection/cleaning of the block/heads. A chewed up follower could also drain shiney in the oil, but a dead follower is a dead hole usually, which will throw a CEL as a misfire/rich/lean condition.

My $.02 based on description, video makes me think you're hiding a diesel under there somewhere, drain the oil and get back to us.
I keep remembering bits of info to add lol

For the last week i felt i had an exhaust leak.. she sounded rough and louder then usual and smelled the exhaust when stoped at a light

I have an two step installed and it failed on me at the track one time... anyhow if I remember more ill post [emoji23]

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702GT

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Tomorrow its getting looked at... that video is right after i pulled over.

Boost 11.8

A/F always in 14 range

I didnt mention that there was a noticeable drop in power when I realized something was wrong.

Also been having a problem with my AIT being to high.. pulling air at 178 degrees.

Well... If you're serious...

AFR at WOT should never be in the 14's, even Naturally Aspirated. NA your target AFR should be 12.5 roughly. FI should be 11.5. At idle/cruise and most other light load conditions, 14.7 is the target AFR, though it's quite common to see a wide range as the throttle is dynamic. If your WOT AFR isn't 11.0-11.5, your tuner should be fired.

11-12psi is definitely pushing the limits if you're on stock 3v internals, particularly on a PD blower. The instant torque is usually what does OE bottom ends in, of course the power is brutal through the entire powerband. About 500ft/lbs is borrowed time for a stock 3v, IMO. Really, anything above 400ft/lbs will shake loose any internal flaws, or make a knock hiccup a catastrophic failure. A solid tune is what keeps most stock 3v's alive between 400-500ft/lbs. But it only takes that one time for shit to go south.

178 degrees is far too hot for charge temps. Add a lean AFR, and you have the combination for pre-ignition and the end of your engine. Even with good AFR's, a hot air charge can still knock if it's beyond the fuel's stability. I would highly recommend making your intercooler setup a top priority after you get the engine straightened out. Would also recommend looking into E85, or a Water/Meth kit. Some folks knock (no pun intended) water/meth, but it's a great alternative if E85 isn't readily available. Water/meth is great for those with a street beast that just needs some help staying cool with an octane kick. It can be a powerful tool for a track car as well. I wouldn't do both, but one should be looked into.

Given the extra information, assuming accurate, I'd say the possibility of a spun bearing is very strong. I would think piston damage is a possibility, but as I said previously, a dead hole will throw a CEL as a misfire. Then again, I've had a buddy with a dead hole we chased thinking it was a fueling issue, turned out his coil wasn't plugged in all the way. Stranger things.
 

Johnstone

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Well... If you're serious...

AFR at WOT should never be in the 14's, even Naturally Aspirated. NA your target AFR should be 12.5 roughly. FI should be 11.5. At idle/cruise and most other light load conditions, 14.7 is the target AFR, though it's quite common to see a wide range as the throttle is dynamic. If your WOT AFR isn't 11.0-11.5, your tuner should be fired.

11-12psi is definitely pushing the limits if you're on stock 3v internals, particularly on a PD blower. The instant torque is usually what does OE bottom ends in, of course the power is brutal through the entire powerband. About 500ft/lbs is borrowed time for a stock 3v, IMO. Really, anything above 400ft/lbs will shake loose any internal flaws, or make a knock hiccup a catastrophic failure. A solid tune is what keeps most stock 3v's alive between 400-500ft/lbs. But it only takes that one time for shit to go south.

178 degrees is far too hot for charge temps. Add a lean AFR, and you have the combination for pre-ignition and the end of your engine. Even with good AFR's, a hot air charge can still knock if it's beyond the fuel's stability. I would highly recommend making your intercooler setup a top priority after you get the engine straightened out. Would also recommend looking into E85, or a Water/Meth kit. Some folks knock (no pun intended) water/meth, but it's a great alternative if E85 isn't readily available. Water/meth is great for those with a street beast that just needs some help staying cool with an octane kick. It can be a powerful tool for a track car as well. I wouldn't do both, but one should be looked into.

Given the extra information, assuming accurate, I'd say the possibility of a spun bearing is very strong. I would think piston damage is a possibility, but as I said previously, a dead hole will throw a CEL as a misfire. Then again, I've had a buddy with a dead hole we chased thinking it was a fueling issue, turned out his coil wasn't plugged in all the way. Stranger things.
I could be wrong with afr.. thanks for your feedback.

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ChewyR

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12 psi, 178 degree IAT, and stock pistons. And the noise happening after a 6k pull. I say that's a broken piston. A spun bearing would take probably take a couple days or weeks before it got that loud. It sounds like it could be a cam phaser malfunctioning but if that is at idle the knock seems a bit fast and usually it will throw a code pretty quick.
 

Johnstone

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12 psi, 178 degree IAT, and stock pistons. And the noise happening after a 6k pull. I say that's a broken piston. A spun bearing would take probably take a couple days or weeks before it got that loud. It sounds like it could be a cam phaser malfunctioning but if that is at idle the knock seems a bit fast and usually it will throw a code pretty quick.
Actually today they drained the oil and it was clean AND removed the valve covers and nothing there. Its deeper then i tought. Fkn sucks.. i was warned about putting a blower on a 3v...anyhow ill definitely update this thread.

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Dino Dino Bambino

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What about the cam phasers?
The high IAT's and lean A/F ratio might have been enough to cause detonation and break the ring lands on one or two pistons. A cylinder compression check will determine if any of them are broken.
 
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ChewyR

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Pull the spark plugs and try to borescope the tops of the pistons.
 

sdleo29

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Shouldn’t the tune , assuming it’s a good one, pull a whole lot of timing out before detonation... 178 is stupid high, wowzer
 

702GT

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Shouldn’t the tune , assuming it’s a good one, pull a whole lot of timing out before detonation... 178 is stupid high, wowzer

Depends on how hard it knocks (if it knocks) and what the spark table looks like. When the charge temps are that high, you can pull all the timing out and boost + inadequate octane + high temps = melted pistons. E85 would put up with it, 91-93 not so much. 12 psi is brutal on the engine when your charge temps are cooked.
 

ChewyR

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The problem is the factory hypereutectic pistons, they don't melt so much as crack under detonation. That combined with relatively high compression ratio from the factory. Does eforce supercharger ship out at 12psi or is that with a pulley swap? My tuner warned against relying on the knock sensors to save the engine.
 

thump_rrr

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My 05 has 100,000 on the stock motor.
It has had a Saleen Supercharger on it since September of 2006. It is running 12 psi of boost putting down 543 rwhp. It has seen over 3,000 1/4 mile runs and 90,000 miles of hard street use with the blower on it.

These motors were never designed for this type of horsepower. The hypereutectic pistons are more than adequate for the power that the car was designed for.

That being said the key to a long engine life is not to push the car or even drive the car when there is an issue.
I would say that an IAT in the 170F range is an issue.
Also a good tune by a knowledgeable tuner is also very high on the list.

Any indication on an oil pump failure?
I’ve seen a follower pop out in a friends car. That’s all I’ve got.
 

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