SCT and Bully Dog tuners gets $6.25m??

eighty6gt

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how hard is it to not replace the engine if someone turned off the ks.

I mean, this is fun to talk about and spitball, but it's all horseshit. And really out of 100,000,000 5.0's ford has built, they've sent out 5-10 that have been blown up? Who cares.

Anecdote: I know of 3x 5.0 dohc truck engines that have gone down in the last 2-3 years from valves sinking into the cylinder heads.
 

07 Boss

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I pass obd emmisions with no cats and sensors on. I have the extensions with the mini cat in there for the sensor. They work and you don’t have to worry about running rich messing with the cats.





 

ChewyR

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They could patch the tuning software itself, not necessarily the individual handhelds. I'm sure it is used under license and they will force dealers into installing the update...the question will be do dealers simply switch to another company or is this the beginning of the end?
 

tjm73

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Not the end. Just what can be done will change.
 

RocketcarX

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I spoke to SCT about this directly and they said this is old news. They actually have been working with the EPA for some time.
It won't affect us they way most guys think it will. The ProRacer software may eventually lose the ability to turn off rear oxygen sensors, but not anytime soon. The main issue would be individual tuners bypassing emissions function (the reason AM stopped providing the cat delete tunes).
The bottom line is they will find a way to keep the emissions deleting features and pass the liability on to the customer that might choose to use the product to delete emissions equipment, I would think.
If this was a real issue most tuning software companies would be in trouble, instead HP Tuners is growing big time along with a lot of stand alone engine hardware/software such as Holley and AEM.
 
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RocketcarX

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Here is a statement sent out to SCT dealers:

Today, Derive Systems announces reaching an agreement with EPA to establish and comply with automotive aftermarket regulations.

The EPA agreement is very positive for our business. With this agreement in place, Derive has established itself as the only federally-compliant player in the tuning industry. Every company in the aftermarket will be held to the same standard as Derive.

Under the agreement, we will make investments to demonstrate environmental leadership in the automotive aftermarket industry.These include: additional emissions tests of our preloaded calibrations on new and past model year applications, developing additional training and certification programs for our custom tuning dealers, continuing to make and sell emissions compliant devices, and further investing in our policy compliance initiatives.

Please take note that:

Every product we sell today is legal. We are permitted to, and will continue selling, our existing tuners and Advantage software.
There is no need for resellers or consumers to return or swap out anything on shelves today, nor is a recall required.
For users of our Advantage custom tuning software, we are forming our certification and training program now, and will share those details directly with you once we’re finished.
Derive Systems, SCT, and Bully Dog remain leaders in the automotive aftermarket and will continue to provide the most advanced technology to our enthusiast consumers, dealers, and resellers.

Read our press release here.

Q: Why did Derive settle?
A: Collaborating with EPA on a settlement allows us to provide market-leading tuners and creates certainty for our customers.
Customers continue to expect innovation and results, but no customer wants to buy regulatory uncertainty or an EPA enforcement action.
Unlike our competitors, we have a clear path forward for our products to enter and thrive in the market with EPA’s approval.
Q: Why is Derive paying a penalty?
A: Derive was formed only a few years ago from the purchases of two tuning companies, SCT and Bully Dog.
Our new company’s management discovered legacy compliance issues with some Bully Dog products that were hidden during the transaction.
We expect this settlement to wipe the slate clean with EPA on these legacy issues.
We will continue to pursue the former owners of Bully Dog and others who committed fraud and other wrongdoing as part of our purchase.
Q: Did Derive sell defeat devices?
A: No, Derive did not sell defeat devices.
Derive bought Bully Dog and SCT only a few years ago. After the transaction, we discovered legacy compliance issues, particularly on the Bully Dog side. We continue to pursue claims arising from that transaction.
In the meantime, Derive entered into this agreement to provide a clear and certain path to continue selling tuners and custom software in partnership with EPA.
Q: How did EPA come up with the 363,000 figure for tuner sales?
A: That question is best put to EPA. Our focus is on the fact that the settlement provides a clear path to continue selling our tuner and custom tuning software products and to continue to introduce those products to market. No other company has this kind of partnership with EPA, which allows to continue providing market-leading performance tuners and custom software, while avoiding regulatory and enforcement uncertainty for our customers.
Q: The settlement states that the penalty is based on Derive’s financial condition [or a limited ability to pay]. Is the company in financial trouble?
A: No, the settlement reflects the fact that Derive is committing a substantial amount to building out its partnership with EPA in this settlement.
Q: Does the settlement require Derive to recall any tuners from its customers or stop selling any tuners?
A: No, it does not. Unlike past EPA tuning settlements, there are no recall terms in the settlement for our products in the market. We are required to test tuners going forward. If the testing reveals issues, we will deal with those issues in an appropriate manner, in consultation with EPA.
Q: Does the settlement require Derive to stop selling custom software?
A: No, it does not. Our settlement partnership with EPA requires us to provide customer training and certification that encourages the legitimate use of our custom tuning software.
Q: Will the settlement require Derive to change its marketing practices or reseller agreements for tuners?
A: From a customer perspective, there will be little change. Derive was not marketing any illegitimate uses of its products before the settlement. And we already have a vigorous compliance program to avoid customer abuse of our products. The settlement memorializes what are already industry best practices.
 

LarryJM

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Top of his class Harvard or Yale lawyer trained to present bad stuff in a good way to dummies.
 

CammedS197

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I pass obd emmisions with no cats and sensors on. I have the extensions with the mini cat in there for the sensor. They work and you don’t have to worry about running rich messing with the cats.





LINK!!! Those are fantastic looking
 

07 Boss

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RocketcarX

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Top of his class Harvard or Yale lawyer trained to present bad stuff in a good way to dummies.
I spoke with SCT directly, there is no real "bad stuff" here, and knock sensors have zero to do with emissions.
 

LarryJM

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I spoke with SCT directly, there is no real "bad stuff" here, and knock sensors have zero to do with emissions.
Harvard Lawyers for Dummies as if forking over millions of dollars is a good thing.
 

Juice

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I pass obd emmisions with no cats and sensors on. I have the extensions with the mini cat in there for the sensor. They work and you don’t have to worry about running rich messing with the cats.






It is just a matter of time before the stations that inspect and pass cars without converters will lose their licenses. Why? Because they are not doing every aspect of the inspection. If they would do the visual inspection like they are supposed to, it would be an automatic FAIL inspection due to missing emissions components, aka catalytic converters.

Before you know it, we are going to end up with roadside spot inspections for emissions compliance, much like the truck inspection stops you see now.

Do you know what the fine is for tampering with the emissions on road going vehicle? But for now, there is no enforcement.
https://legalbeagle.com/7194804-catalytic-converter-laws.html

I'm not a tree hugger or anything. I don't care what others do, but removing converters today is totally pointless and it is starting to get the attention of the law and the people who pass laws. Its not like the when first converters started to be on cars, sure, back then they suffocated the engines.

Selfish attitudes like this fuck up the hobby for EVERYONE, thanks......as..oles
 
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eighty6gt

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what % of vehicle owners tamper with emissions.. .05%... I wonder if it would be worthwhile having roadside stations.
 

tjm73

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They don't need stations. They need sensors and cameras. The sensor checks every car as it drives by and the camera tags each car while a computer puts the two together with surprising accuracy. A day or two later, you get a letter requiring the car to present for inspection with 24-48 hours. All with near zero human input and since it is not a ticket, it's not a court proceeding so you have no right to face an "accuser". You just get tagged for being "potentially non-compliant" and have to present for a compliance inspection. When you fail, the car is red flagged and off the road until brought into compliance.

I suspect the technology for this already exists. Money is all that's missing. Money for the technology and money for enforcement. The laws are on the books already. Every modified car built since 1968 is likely out of compliance Federally and likely out of compliance at the State level for many States.

Stuff like l this is coming whether enthusiasts like it or not. It's also why I think the hobby is in decline. The cost to play and remain legal is too high for most people, so they take interest in other things. I don't personally know a single person under 35 that is really into cars. Growing up I didn't know anyone that wasn't into cars at some level.
 

redfirepearlgt

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http://www.krgv.com/story/39168098/...eement-with-epa-to-enhance-industry-practices


https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/derive-systems-clean-air-act-settlement

More facts here on this topic. While the specifics are not clear the EPA states only a $300,000 dollar fine was handed down in the "civil" portion of the second link written by the EPA.

BD has been known for providing tunes that eliminate the EGR and other emissions equipment on Diesel powered vehicles. The tune as I understand it from a friend who is into this side of performance is written specifically for the removal of the EGR system on Diesel vehicles which is in place as it is on gas combustion engines to deal with the emission of gases that derive from operating at a leaner output. Go too lean and too hot and you produce Nitrogen Oxide (not nitrous oxide) go to rich and you generate CO.

I personally believe the local yocal Grand Rapids tv station sought to make much ado of little here. They barked before the smoke had cleared and the final decision had been rendered. Likely some whacko who seeks to eliminate the sport of automotive competition. The local channel in the area from which Derive Systems is located has a slightly less spun up write up on the matter dated 9/25/18 which is the first link.
 

LarryJM

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Summit Point West Virginia has no emission inspections at all.
 

bujeezus

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Alabama has no inspection, period. You should see some of the pieces of shit on the road here.
 

LarryJM

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In some states, you could pull a 392 full tilt Hemi for a 58 Chrysler Station Wagon and install it in a new Challenger Scat Pak.
 

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