TR3650 difficulty getting into 1st 2nd 4th and reverse

07gts197 said:

It was a spur of the moment thing I thought Id try it to see how it affected shifting since I cant find any problems. Funny Ive checked synchros per Fords tsb (unrelated) and passed but it does seem like a synchro problem with the lockout issues at random rpms. Even today I was locked out of second in a parking lot and literally nothing helped it go into gear. I had to stop and put it back into first.

I dont remember what fluid I used but I do believe it was Mobile 1 and I do remember it was in a red bottle. I havent even messed with it since I drained it about 50k miles ago. I plan on a dump and fill here soon anyway and I was looking at either synchromesh or dex/merc. I figure the shifting cant get any worse than now...

Also what is a good stock replacement clutch? After running an Exedy Id rather go back to stock or something similar.

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I know people seem to love them but I hated my Exedy Mach 500 clutch, that thing had so much pedal effort it destroyed hydraulics. I was always either doing the slave cylinder or the master cylinder. I think the RAM clutch may be worth a shot, honestly if FRPP makes a clutch kit like the used to for the FOXbody I would run that

RocketcarX said:

I know people seem to love them but I hated my Exedy Mach 500 clutch, that thing had so much pedal effort it destroyed hydraulics. I was always either doing the slave cylinder or the master cylinder. I think the RAM clutch may be worth a shot, honestly if FRPP makes a clutch kit like the used to for the FOXbody I would run that

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A quick search on lmr shows a ram oe clutch for 239 bucks. I have a slave cylinder so I know Ill be fine there but then Ill need a pilot bearing, anything else Im forgetting?

07gts197 said:

A quick search on lmr shows a ram oe clutch for 239 bucks. I have a slave cylinder so I know Ill be fine there but then Ill need a pilot bearing, anything else Im forgetting?

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What are you doing with the flywheel? Yes, if it isn't burned or scored, you can just swap the clutch, but you are risking possible clutch chatter. Deglaze and clean with brakeclean at least. A better option would be resurfacing the flywheel, and even better would be a new billet one. Resurfacing may require shimming the slave cylinder.

It all depends on what condition the flywheel is in once you get it apart.

Juice said:

What are you doing with the flywheel? Yes, if it isn't burned or scored, you can just swap the clutch, but you are risking possible clutch chatter. Deglaze and clean with brakeclean at least. A better option would be resurfacing the flywheel, and even better would be a new billet one. Resurfacing may require shimming the slave cylinder.

It all depends on what condition the flywheel is in once you get it apart.

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Im most likely going to have Ford do the work because I cant drop the trans myself and there are no reputable shops in Naples that Im aware of. Ill look into flywheels thanks. Its probably best to get another one because of all the issues. I had Ford replace the clutch years ago when it grenaded but they didnt do anything other than install the clutch I supplied. I mean they didnt even tell me how the slave or flywheel looked or inspect anything...

07gts197 said:

Im most likely going to have Ford do the work because I cant drop the trans myself and there are no reputable shops in Naples that Im aware of. Ill look into flywheels thanks. Its probably best to get another one because of all the issues. I had Ford replace the clutch years ago when it grenaded but they didnt do anything other than install the clutch I supplied. I mean they didnt even tell me how the slave or flywheel looked or inspect anything...

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Anything OEM from NAPA, O'Reily's, Advanced Auto, ect., will work fine. I had the Exedy Mach 400. IMO I didn't feel the pedal effort was much stiffer than stock. Honestly, the only reason I swapped out the stocker for the Centerforce DF (dogshit clutch, ultra heavy pedal) and then to the Mach 400 (perfection, IMO) was due to stock clutch starting to slip during nitrous launches on the track. It just didn't want to hold the abuse. Otherwise, the OEM has been proven to hold 400-500whp on the street. I would have gone back to OEM when I decided my track days were over, but the Exedy performed flawlessly after the GT500 MC and line upgrade. The pedal was definately stiffer than stock, but not as bad as the Centerforce.

Unless you track regularly or are making 500whp+, I think an OE from local parts store or Ford/Tousley (or rockauto) would be just fine. RAM has a good rep with the S197 as well, particularly their OE equivilent.

Could be a good opportunity to do a 6060 swap, if you're so inclined. Was always on my wish list, but never found the price I was willing to pay. I'd rather do a liberty 3650 or TKO long before I'll shell $3k+ for a 6060. $2k was my max for the 6060 drop in, but could never get that price WITH the DS and supporting hardware.

I dd my 07 and have never tracked it so oe should be fine.

Didnt Exedy used to make a 350 clutch? Im pretty sure thats what I went with and honestly its been pretty lousy. I dont remember it being this crappy but not too long after it was installed I started having issues described above. That really turns me off to Exedy. Im thinking Ram and done.

Ive thought about getting a t56 magnum but I dont like the ratios. The only advantage Id have over my 3650 is an extra overdrive, besides it having a direct shifter. Its just overkill. I read about a lot of people shifting these cars like nothing while I struggle literally every day, that shouldnt sway me to get a new trans thats overkill for a dd. I mean maybe if I could find a good 6060 and 4.10s for cheap Id seriously consider it.

Oh boy. All this exedy and mc talk has me worried. I have the mach 500 and I have noticed getting into gear is suddenly requiring more effort. Then going down the highway afew days ago i was coming to a red light, pushed the clutch in, was going to shift to forth and I was locked out of every gear until I got slow enough. Not even rev matching helped. It hasn't done it again, but it is the beginning of something i'm sure.

Just keep your eye on it, good luck.

Today I drove from my house to a friends about 40 miles away and didnt have any issues. I read somewhere a guy on another forum suggest to another member to let the shifter find the gears itself as opposed to shoving it where you think the gear should be. Besides not being able to shift into 1st from a stop it pretty much worked. Im still going to swap out the fluid but it seems to be an issue with the shifter moving around. I have poly bushings so I didnt think that would be the issue but Im probably wrong. Next up on the mod list either the Che k member brace with torque limiters or the Blowfish Racing bracket.

07gts197 said:

Today I drove from my house to a friends about 40 miles away and didnt have any issues. I read somewhere a guy on another forum suggest to another member to let the shifter find the gears itself as opposed to shoving it where you think the gear should be. Besides not being able to shift into 1st from a stop it pretty much worked. Im still going to swap out the fluid but it seems to be an issue with the shifter moving around. I have poly bushings so I didnt think that would be the issue but Im probably wrong. Next up on the mod list either the Che k member brace with torque limiters or the Blowfish Racing bracket.

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I had both CHE and the Blowfish. Don't waste your money on bandaides. I removed both when I fixed my issues. They were never needed. Focus your resources on the root problem. If it's not the master, slave, leak, pressure plate, shifter, it's the tranny.

I had a Hurst shifter (somehow deemed the shittiest shifter you can buy for the S197.. I loved mine but I'm sure I would have loved a MGW just as well) and it was butter after my clutch issues were fixed.

I could see shifter alignment being a problem if your engine mounts are so worn out or you make so much torque your engine is twisting the tranny more than 5 degrees out of alignment under load. You're having shifting issues under normal (minimal) load conditions. You could have solid mounts and it won't do a thing for that. It may be worth checking your shifter bushings and shifter hardware, make sure there isn't slop in any of it (though you can usually tell just by how the shifter feels in the cabin).

It could be possible you have a damaged shift fork, but that usually presents itself as difficult consistantly in every gear or specific gears. It doesn't hop around. (Today it's 1st/Reverse, 10 minutes later it's 2nd/3rd.) Usually a damaged fork is bent, broken would be obvious as hell. Bent forks still work, but depending on the direction of the deformation, specific or all gears experience difficulty all the time. There are also built-in stops in our 3650's to prevent bending of the fork, but if those fail, it would only take that one good hammer shift to damage the fork. Some people get too excited grabbing a gear, lol. Remember, it's speed/accuracy, not supermanning your Ex's gapping vag.

Haha I love the last line!

The last time I swapped the shifter out the bushings seemed ok. They are poly but they are about 5 years old. I have poly motor mounts too. Right now Im using a steeda tri ax, I had it installed a few years back and got sick so I reinstalled the stocker so my dad could drive the car in the meantime. I just reinstalled it about a year ago and it does seem like its not a stiff as it used to be. Perhaps its just because Im so used to it but I remember the spring was so strong if I wasnt paying attention Id go straight from 1st to 4th lol. Now it feels like theres a bit more slop. And in gear theres a little bit of play too but not like the other shifters Ive had.

Im not ruling out the transmission but it does shift fine when the car is off and when I granny shift with a limp wrist. Also I went to a deserted road to try shifting at redline and had two successful shifts. Thats what gets me is that most people have issues at redline whereas Ive had issues at random, lower rpms.

07gts197 said:

Ive thought about getting a t56 magnum but I dont like the ratios. The only advantage Id have over my 3650 is an extra overdrive, besides it having a direct shifter. Its just overkill. I read about a lot of people shifting these cars like nothing while I struggle literally every day, that shouldnt sway me to get a new trans thats overkill for a dd. I mean maybe if I could find a good 6060 and 4.10s for cheap Id seriously consider it.

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I have pretty much decided I'm going with the T56 . . . I like the ratios on the 2.97 XL. Combined with a 3.90 rear gear, it will give about the same 1st gear throttle response as the 3650 while having shorter 2nd and 3rd . . . exactly what I was looking for.

Will be selling off my 3650 with only 21k miles on it. Will pay someone to take that stupid f'ing Spec clutch away from me.

I Have had good sucess with RAM for oem replacement clutches.

1950StangJump$ said:

I have pretty much decided I'm going with the T56 . . . I like the ratios on the 2.97 XL. Combined with a 3.90 rear gear, it will give about the same 1st gear throttle response as the 3650 while having shorter 2nd and 3rd . . . exactly what I was looking for.

Will be selling off my 3650 with only 21k miles on it. Will pay someone to take that stupid f'ing Spec clutch away from me.

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Man Id go that route if the gear ratios were closer to the mt82 or 6r80 but realistically you’d have to have a high numerical rear gear to make up for the lower first couple of gears, assuming you dont have a roots or twin screw blower. Also it has 2 overdrives, not something I really care about.

JeremyH said:

I Have had good sucess with RAM for oem replacement clutches.

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Thanks man just what I wanted to hear. Im pretty much set on Ram for now.

07gts197 said:

Haha I love the last line!

The last time I swapped the shifter out the bushings seemed ok. They are poly but they are about 5 years old. I have poly motor mounts too. Right now Im using a steeda tri ax, I had it installed a few years back and got sick so I reinstalled the stocker so my dad could drive the car in the meantime. I just reinstalled it about a year ago and it does seem like its not a stiff as it used to be. Perhaps its just because Im so used to it but I remember the spring was so strong if I wasnt paying attention Id go straight from 1st to 4th lol. Now it feels like theres a bit more slop. And in gear theres a little bit of play too but not like the other shifters Ive had.

Im not ruling out the transmission but it does shift fine when the car is off and when I granny shift with a limp wrist. Also I went to a deserted road to try shifting at redline and had two successful shifts. Thats what gets me is that most people have issues at redline whereas Ive had issues at random, lower rpms.

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07gts197 said:

Man Id go that route if the gear ratios were closer to the mt82 or 6r80 but realistically you’d have to have a high numerical rear gear to make up for the lower first couple of gears, assuming you dont have a roots or twin screw blower. Also it has 2 overdrives, not something I really care about.



Thanks man just what I wanted to hear. Im pretty much set on Ram for now.

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If you would go that route "with exception" I have to ask, why the exception? Are you competitive with your car? Or is it a street toy? Weekend track car for fun? The T-56 gear ratio's aren't going to haunt you on the street. They'll be different compared to a 3650, but nothing that's going to make you want to claw your eyeballs out. I've driven T56 cobra's, T5 GT's, T3650's, MT82's, the dull 6R80, have a 6R140, and 6060 all with various final ratio's. On the street, honestly the T56 has always felt the best. The 6060 is a close 2nd of the bunch, and the MT82 as a 3rd favorite. I don't care for auto's, but there's no denying the brute power delivery, they certainly put it down compared to auto's of old. Especially the 6R140 TorqShift. Even with 17,000lbs of tug, it shifts like a champ and never feels sloppy or slushy. 6R80 does the new 'stangs justice as well, it's just boring in OE trim. Feels lightyears beyond the 5R, crisp and no hunting. T5 & 3650 are trash of the group, but as far as ratios, none of them annoy me. Most of these vehicles are 4.10-4.30 cars, with the exception of 3.31's in the Super Duty and newer Mustang's. Even the Termi and Shelby are 4.10's. The Termi is a tire roaster compared to the Shelby, but in its defense the Shelby is a pulley/tune car and a bit heavier than the 2.9 Whipple Termi. I'd daily either without fret.

Even with much less torque, at worst you're talking about burning up a bit of extra clutch on take-off. My point is, if you have the means and it's something you want/need, why the hell suffer? I stood on principal over the 6060 in my case, but my 3650 wasn't a plague for me to deal with every time I drove. If my 3650 gave me your issues for this long, I'd have dumped that fucker in a lava pit and taken a loan for a 6060 swap, lol. Or at least a Liberty build, but I'd rather have 6 gears in a street car.

I just feel that going with an expensive transmission thats meant for fi cars is overkill for me. My car is a dd with some spirited driving, though I do plan to eventually take it to the strip. Im surprised how much you like the t56. What was it about the 6060 that you didnt like as much as the t56? And I know what you mean about autos, I was only comparing gear ratios but still they can be fun. I loved the 4r in my 98 p71. I think something was wrong and it pretty much j modded itself because that thing would shift quickly and sometimes would chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift haha! All of that with a breezy 215 hp lol.

I feel as though Im a broken record so I try not to complain about this car but it drives me up a wall (no pun intended) when I go for a gear and get a wall. And I know its not me because Ive been driving stick since I was 15. My 02 gt has never given me any issues. In fact Ive been thinking about puting it back on the road while I work on the 07. I miss driving an sn95 anyway. Anyway yea I get pissed of at it because of all the issues but I just live with it. I dont have a good transmission shop nearby, no room to do a rebuild and no way of dropping the transmission myself or otherwise Id tinker with it myself. Its on the to-do list its just not a high priority since its not slipping or making funny sounds.

I need to record myself driving and watch the shifter for consistancy. Maybe its me that cant shift, whos to say.

I agree the T56 is a bit of an overkill if you will not go boosted at some point. But, don't let the ratios be the deciding factor. If you go to Tremec's website, they have a calculator so that you can compare what speed you are at with different trans gear ratios at different RPMs . . . and factor in the rear end gear.

Not trying to make this about me, but as an example . . .I used 2000 RPM, since that seems to be a common spot where I want to goose the car in traffic . . . if I choose the 2.97 Magnum XL, and go from my stock 3.55 rear to a 3.90, I make 1st just a touch longer, but make 2nd and 3rd significantly shorter. For my street car, and based on how the car feels to me now (450 RWHP), that sounds perfect. Also, 6th gear will be within 1 MPH of where 5th is on the 3650.

Point being, playing with the different ratios of the available Magnums and with different rear end gears, you might find something that gives you the exact feel you want . . . if you boost later, a new rear gear would be all you need to keep the right feel for the expected use of the car. At some point, I will look to forge the internals and crank up my boost . . . and I'm sure I will need to bring the rear gear back down to compensate.

Thats ok I appreciate you using yourself as a real world example. I dont see myself boosting this motor but I might do a coyote swap down the road. Having a lower gear and higher redline might make for a good combo since it would stay in its powerband longer.

I've had my 06GT for 10+ years and 240k miles and I've had my share of shifting related problems and replaced, fixed, or upgraded every component related to shifting at some time or another. Lots of trial and error. I even have a spare 3650 that I rebuild myself and swap out every couple of years. Sometimes I do a good job rebuilding it, and sometimes I do a crappy job. Depends on how much time and patience I have at the time.

Also, I am by no means a professionally trained mechanic. I just enjoy fixing my own stuff and I hate paying somebody else for something that I can probably do on my own.

Lockout and grinding is not always transmission related!!!! I recently put in a freshly rebuilt 3650 and new TOB and it worked flawlessly for a few days. Then I started to get a small grind in all gears after the car was warmed up and/or hot. Then I noticed the small grind wasn't when trying to get into the next gear, but almost right after I got into that gear. Kinda like the throw out bearing was only holding pressure for a second, then losing it. Later that night during a hard braking from about 110mph I cooked the brake fluid really good. You know the smell. Right after that I immediately got locked out of every gear until everything cooled enough to make it home. That confirmed the problem for me. So I flushed all of the brake fluid and replaced the clutch master cylinder as well. The brake fluid was really bad. Black as old used motor oil, lol. Shifts like a new car again and the new master cylinder and new brake fluid set me back around a $100 bucks. Not bad.

I have BMR motor mounts and they work great. I have a UPR billet shifter and it works great. I have replaced the shifter rod assembly plastic bushings with AMP performance bronze bushings and they feel awesome compared to Ford plastic. You can only find those on Ebay and Amazon. I have the blowfish shifter bracket and it works awesome. I swear by it. I put it in about 4 years ago when they first came out and I have NEVER missed a 3rd gear WOT up shift, provided every other component is in good working order as well.

My point is our cars are old and have many miles on them. Think about everything else before you blame the transmission. Most of this stuff is reasonably priced. Rebuilding the transmission, replacing the transmission, or upgrading the transmission costs way more. Even if you can do it all yourself.

Assuming identical rear gears, 1st and 6th will be longer with either of the Magnum XLs than with the 3650. 2nd, 3rd, and 5th will be shorter.

4th is exactly the same.